Unfortunate turn!

[CSY Man]

Dragging up the non-issue of the gray danbuoy pole indicates your preference for the latter. Sorry for being critical.

Don't be sorry, I don't mind folks being critical.

If you feel some safety stuff is a non-issue: My hat off to you Sir, more balls than I have.

CSY Man - when you first moved onto a boat 20 years ago, how many people told you that you shouldn't be there; that you didn't belong; that you didn't know what you were doing?

Nobody did, but I did not brag about my ignorance either.

Tried hard not to do any stupid things however, and if I did not know how to splice a line, I didn't blame it on the natives on the nearest island.
Or bitch about not finding internet places or Taco Bells on some other boring island....

[Alan Wheeler]

So Mr Messingabout..... you admit you are trolling??? Then you you suggest WE have the negative Human nature. That's pretty rich of you ain't it??
Once again I reiterate. 99% here have no issue with Pat and Ali. Good on them for what they are doing. Who cares what experiance they have. I think that is what most all of us here think. Maybe there is one or maybe two whom think differently and I think they have that right as well. But may I use a different example to justify the angle I have approached my comments. I persume Mr Messingabout, that you can drive a car. I don't care if you have a licence, that isn't the issue. But I presume you can drive. OK, would you paint out your licence plate? No? why? Would you drive around in 1st gear only? No? why? Would you drive across the USA without first checking water, oil, spare and probably several other things? No? Why?
You see, you may not have a licence. A licence doesn't make you a good driver. You may not have years of experiance at driving. Even that doesn't always make good drivers. But I bet you wouldn't do any of the above either. If you did, would you not expect some driver with a little knowledge and maybe experiance to point out some of the things you are doing wrong, may need to check before your journey and maybe do along the way.

Nah Kevin, I think you have that plain the wrong way around. If anybody ever makes a negative critisism about somebody moving on to a boat, or leaving shore and sailing the world, then I can bet you all the money in the world, those people are not sailors and have probably never even been on a boat. That is negative critisism.
Painting a MOB pole grey is a totaly different situation and IS constructive critisism.

No body has ever told me I never belonged on a boat. I would never tell anyone they never belonged. I nor anyone I have read a comment from on this board have never made any comment about Pat and Ali not belonging. My comments have always been positive toward them getting out there. It is just a few things they have done while out there that I and others have commented on. This whole situation would be totaly different if Pat ever bothered to reply. He would actually see that we are very helpful and trying to be very helpful. Heck, if we had "knockers" on this board, wouldn't there be subjects OTHER than Pat and Ali getting a hammering too.

OK, so I am at a loss with this thread. arrr, I give up with it. It seems if ya comment ya get plastered. If ya don't comment ya get plastered. I offered help and freindship to Pat and Ali when they were in NZ. I offered advise with weather across the Tasman. I don't ever contact them again and I end up getting called a "Crazy Stalker guy". Who the hell has the problem?? I don't think it is me.

[Lodesman]

Guys,

There has been plenty of positive comment on this thread, but there also has been plenty of the other type. Comments like "youth is wasted on the young", "ugly Americans", "shallow", "banal"; insulting speculation about where P & A got their money; derisive reflections on their eating habits; and suggestions that if they don't embrace absolutely every cultural food, fact and oddity, then they should putter around a lake until they've achieved the same mileage as a circumnavigation. I could go on, but why bother - can you possibly suggest that any of this is constructive?

As for the mob pole - this has been beaten to death on this thread and another. P&A have clearly heard your concerns and have made a fully-informed decision to keep the grey pole. Whether you like it or not, it's their decision - not yours. To keep railing about it seems more than a little presumptuous.

And Alan, a lot of people strike out across the US without checking the oil, tires etc. Most make it fine, and the ones that break down, deal with it. We don't take away their licenses and tell them they shouldn't be there.

Kevin

[messingabout]

Quote_1 Alan:
So Mr Messingabout..... you admit you are trolling??? Then you you suggest WE have the negative Human nature. That's pretty rich of you ain't it??

I didn't deny being human myself. I can be negative sometimes. But I fail to see what is negative about "trolling" as you put it.

Quote_2Alan:
I persume Mr Messingabout, that you can drive a car. I don't care if you have a licence, that isn't the issue. But I presume you can drive. OK, would you paint out your licence plate? No? why? Would you drive around in 1st gear only? No? why? Would you drive across the USA without first checking water, oil, spare and probably several other things? No? Why?
You see, you may not have a licence. A licence doesn't make you a good driver. You may not have years of experiance at driving. Even that doesn't always make good drivers. But I bet you wouldn't do any of the above either. If you did, would you not expect some driver with a little knowledge and maybe experiance to point out some of the things you are doing wrong, may need to check before your journey and maybe do along the way.

None of those ridiculous suggesttions are at all relevant. If Pat and Ali had made any serious errors they would have been history. Otherwise they would not have made it this far. Have you lost all reason? Their minor mistakes have been nothing compared to your wild rambling. They're in an entirely diffentrent environment to what your referring to. A red MOB pole would have made absolutly no difference to their voyage and in all likelyhood never will.

Quote_3Alan
Hmmmm, maybe I should just shut up now. I seem to be letting him get to me.

That much I agree with.

Quote_4Alan
OK, so I am at a loss with this thread. arrr, I give up with it. It seems if ya comment ya get plastered.

That's a bit rich coming from someone who's done his own share of plastering.

[Amphibian]

This thread was started by someone who registered only to place a link.

"Old salts" expressed concern over the couple’s indifference regarding safety measures.

The “new posters” are mainly interested in provoking and flaming our old members.

This place has so far been peaceful, which proves that the “problem” came from outside.

“Newbies” normaly include some info in their profile and present themselves in “Introductions and Greets”, where they are welcomed.

Friends, I suspect we are being used and made fun of. Better turn your back and do something more worthwhile.

[messingabout]

Qote: Amphibian.
Friends, I suspect we are being used and made fun of. Better turn your back and do something more worthwhile.

I hope your don't mean me? I'm not making fun of anybody. I just get sick of people who try to boost their ego by using their experience and skills/knowledge to putting crap on those who are new to an activity or endevour and then have the hide to try and disguise it as friendly advise.

[Amphibian]

This thread was started by someone who registered only to place a link.

"Old salts" expressed concern over the couple’s indifference regarding safety measures.

The “new posters” are mainly interested in provoking and flaming our old members.

This place has so far been peaceful, which proves that the “problem” came from outside.

“Newbies” normaly include some info in their profile and present themselves in “Introductions and Greets”, where they are welcomed.

[Lodesman]

Amphibian once whispered in the wind:
This thread was started by someone who registered only to place a link.

"Old salts" expressed concern over the couple’s indifference regarding safety measures.

The “new posters” are mainly interested in provoking and flaming our old members.

I think Rhonda started this thread to ask a specific question.

The "old salts" also expressed concern over the subject couple's preference for pizza and McDonalds.

While there may be some interested in "flaming", I think most of the "new posters" are more interested in provoking a serious discussion. I find your statements ironically similar to a certain couple of newbies' perception of "seasoned cruisers." I would like to think the input of new members is as valued as that of the old members - am I wrong?

Kevin

[GordMay]

Kevin suggests that ”... I would like to think the input of new members is as valued as that of the old members - am I wrong? ...”
While everyone’s participation is equally welcome, there are some among us whose advice & opinions I (personally) value more highly than others. This may not represent a “politically correct” attitude (on my part), but I’m particular about how & where I get my information. This is not to say that I demand seniority on the CruisersForum (some of our most knowledgeable contributors are ‘newer’ members), but I do expect a certain level of demonstrable “expertise”.

Quoting Rhonda, ”... I am sure many of you will have comments and come to your own conclusions, and I would love to hear your thoughts on it ... click on logs and then go to feb 2005 scroll down and click on the link that says " Blistering and Delamination Correspondence”, it appears (to me) that she may have been more interested in publicizing the Bum’s dispute, than hearing general comments & opinions. I suspect that the topic took on an unexpected flavour. In any case, she has never contributed anyrthing positive to the forum, limiting her (7) posts to “Unfortunate turn”.

Nope - I don’t value everyone’s input the same (tho’ it’s nothing to do with new or old members) ...
and he only 'lifestyle opinions' I value are my own. I know - I'm a jerk.

[Lodesman]

GordMay once whispered in the wind:
I know - I'm a jerk.

Yeah Gord, but you're a loveable jerk. I took Rhonda's initial post as an earnest desire to learn about the pitfalls of buying a boat, so as not to end up in the same boat as P&A - so to speak. I try to keep an open mind, and judge each comment on its own merit, rather than prejudging based on the author. Sometimes those with the least experience are able to offer insights unseen by the biased eye - from the mouths of babes, as it were.

Kevin

[Amphibian]

I think most of the "new posters" are more interested in provoking a serious discussion.

"SERIOUS"??? You gotta be kidding. Try the dictionary.

A few "new posters" certainly took for granted they had the "right" to provoke and deliberately hurt respected members.

As mentioned above, those who bother (!) to read Introductions & Greets will find that newbies with an interest in sailing are welcomed.

A minimum of decent behavior will go a long way.

[Alan Wheeler]

Amen Amphibian!

OK Mr Messingabout. You say I have done my own share of plastering. OK, quote me. What and where??? You see, if you manage to come up with something, I gaurentee you that it will be taken out of context. And that is the issue with this tread.

I see a major difference between Rhonda and Mr Messingabout. Rhonda and a few other newbies that have posted comments here, (I THINK) have seen that this thread is NOT what it seems, a bunch of jealouse old salts throwing negative comments at some rich young couple.

The difference now Mr Messingabout, is that for your very first post here on this board, have chosen this subject. You have chosen to make inflametry comments. You have not posted any info on who you are.
AND
YOU have owned up to Trolling. So unless you change your tone and attitude, I doubt you will ever be taken seriuosely here.
If you do change your tone and attitude, (I am not looking for an apology) you will see that we are all very forgiving people. You will see that you will become a welcome member. You will find that we will forget totaly what has happend here and move on. You will also find and see that we are NOT a bunch of Jealouse old Salts.

For me, I won't comment anymore to this thread. (I have said that before ) But I am determined not to see this place destroyed like a couple of other sites out there, that had a great prospect,yet become nothing but ruiens by some bickering and arguing and name calling.
Guy's, we will never win arguing against Trolls. That is the entire point in their excersise. It is Guerilla warfare. The only way to win is to hold our breath, count to ten and not reply. It takes the sting out of the tail.

[Lodesman]

Amphib - "try the dictionary". You're questioning my comprehension of the English language?!? Do you really want to go there? If this is your idea of "decent behaviour", then I'm going to critique it. I agree entirely that some of the new posters were only stirring the pot and had nothing to add to the forum - I ignored them. But there have been a lot of new or nearly new posters on this thread, who did contribute without insulting anyone. The same can not be said of every "respected member" that posted to this thread. I do not want to appear to be painting all with the same brush as the majority took the high road and kept their input civil and constructive. For the others, I would expect better. The ongoing justification for criticising the Bums, is that they have posted to the public domain. Surely by extension, the same can be said for any point made on this thread. If you make a contentious point, be prepared to have it challenged. If you can't defend your position without making personal slights, then I suggest you keep it to yourself.

Alan - you know you can't resist. Like you said, some have the tabloids; some have this thread. It's like a horrible car wreck, from which you cannot avert your eyes. Maybe "crazy stalker guy" is a term of affection - besides, if you stop contributing, who will have the last word?

Me, I'm just playing the devil's advocate.

Kevin

[Amphibian]

Do you really want to go there?

Eh - thanks, but no thanks. Just want the forum back on track.

But there have been a lot of new or nearly new posters on this thread, who did contribute without insulting anyone.

Correct. This type is always welcome.

If you make a contentious point, be prepared to have it challenged.

That's life (yawwwn). I must be getting old.

The ongoing justification for criticising the Bums, is that they have posted to the public domain.

GOTCHA! Nobody here ever knew about the Bums before they were encouraged to have a look at the blog (see first post of this thread). Seriously doubt anybody here would have made any comments to it IF they had stumbled across it while surfing the web.

If you can't defend your position without making personal slights, then I suggest you keep it to yourself.

WRONG. The task of a moderator is to keep everybody happy. Meaning that if the majority feels uncomfortable (to say the least), he has the power to "tidy up" and issue warnings.

We have so far been "open-minded" to the extent of soon feeling a draft through our heads, but have chosen not to close this thread due to the right of "free speech".

Me, I'm just playing the devil's advocate.

Sure, sure. Go play in kindergarten and leave us alone.

[swagman]

I was stunned to see the first post has already had 2,800+ views - about 2,795 more than it deserves. And wasted the time of maybe 200 respondants.

I personally find it sad this statistic indicates we'd appear to prefer to argue over a simple subject where there is no right / wrong - just differing opinions.

So to whoever moderates or edits this site - please don't let this thread continue to grow as it has in the past. It's not helping anyone - even if 2,800 have read it!

And it's spoiling an otherwise nice site.

Cheers

JOHN