Urgent insurance problem

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by silverp40

Thank you for the info, we'll keep looking. Its certainly a challenge to get insurance now for a classic plastic boat, especially in the US. Seems like European companies are easier in this regard, however most would want a EU registered boat.


BTW, rumrace, a top contributing boat accident/claim is electrical, onboard fires.

Your electrical system gives you lights, communications, cold drinks, and much more. But it's also the place that most boat fires start.

https://www.boatus.com/expert-advice...%209%20percent.

[Jolly Roger]

Isn't it amazing how some folks manage to grab other people's posts and convert them to their own questions?

[Wannabes00n]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

Reading these boat insurance policies is tedious. Mine is 20 pages and says: Comprehensive. The lesser of actual cash value at time of loss or $100,000.
What the heck does that mean!!
I thought about seeing a lawyer to see if the policy they gave me could somehow be upheld, but then they wouldn’t be too cooperative if I had to make a claim would they?

"Actual Cash Value" typically means; "Replacement cost" less "depreciation." Depreciation is probably about 2% year on hull and equipment, except outboards are usually closer to 8%. so ACV on a 1977 Schooner currently insured for $100,000: (2022 - 1977) x .02 = 45 years x .02 = $90,000 worth of depreciation. BUT, this is if you do nothing but maintain what came with boat on day one. This is why any boat of age needs an inspection and survey to reach agreed value, as surveyor will not the actual condition of the boat. this way everyone is on same page of value.

no commission for insurance agents are nowhere near 50% premium..... Claims retention for A rated carriers is north of 60/70% alone..... this without paying service folks, everyday expense, the execs, the stock holders for stock company, etc, etc, etc.

liability only cover: look for Markel. previously mentioned specialty yacht insurance brokers are quality outfits.

[silverp40]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

All’s well that ends well: They have re-instated the policy at the original value, but they want a survey before they will renew it in May 2023.
I am thinking of selling Britannia before then anyway, so a buyer can pay for a survey, and if it's satisfactory the insurance might roll over.
Someone said the boat was “unusual.” This was not an issue, only the age at 45 years. She is a staysail schooner, which is not unusual at all. Only the square sail set on a yard on the foremast might be classed as unusual, but I prefer to think of it as unique and interesting. It’s certainly the only way to travel downwind.
Thanks to everyone who chipped in.

A sad day when one sells a boat they owned a loong time. Good you have the policy back....A schooner rig is also not unusual, however most insurance companies do not understand rigs, mainly profits.

[Rumrace]

So what we have here is one sailor down. I find that unacceptable! Especially one with experiences to share.
If 1,000 boaters bought a lottery ticket for 3$ with no expectation to win but the winners are already chosen.
Most sailors got 3$ to throw away.
We find 5 folks loosing their boating and go fund them in a silly lottery. Break every lottery rule made. We need an international lawyer to hold the funds in trust pending a broker being selected for the winner.
Cheat do it again next month.

[Rumrace]

Apparently there are 84,000 Sailboats here.
I imagine Florida Texas California Eastern Seaboard all have 10 times that.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by silverp40

A sad day when one sells a boat they owned a loong time. Good you have the policy back....A schooner rig is also not unusual, however most insurance companies do not understand rigs, mainly profits.

Recommendations for answers when completing insurance applications,

Asset for policy coverage? Boat

Type: Floating

[Polski Gus]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

Without some numbers it is really hard to tell... but when a boat is 45 years old, unless it is a true classic, its value to the boat buying market is pretty low. Does it still makes sense to even carry hull insurance on this?

It is entertaining to read all the rants about the evil, greedy insurance companies who are cancelling our policies! If they cancel your policy, how exactly are they making ANY more money from you???? I know, let's cancel ALL our policies and get really rich!!!!

If I was an insurance company, I wouldn't insure any boat for more than market value. To do so puts that policy are very high risk for a fraudulent total loss claim.

No it's not entertaining. Nothing funny about not being able to insure your investment or what is many their home. Insurance companies should asses the risk and charge accordingly. That is their charter. Many sailors I know can only get liability for an older boat. I got insurance for agreed value for a 1958 41ft but was required to make repairs listed in the survey and then have it surveyed again, then got refused. Eventually moved boat away from coast and got full insurance.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Polski Gus

No it's not entertaining. Nothing funny about not being able to insure your investment or what is many their home. Insurance companies should asses the risk and charge accordingly. That is their charter. Many sailors I know can only get liability for an older boat. I got insurance for agreed value for a 1958 41ft but was required to make repairs listed in the survey and then have it surveyed again, then got refused. Eventually moved boat away from coast and got full insurance.

But they have assessed the risk. They don't provide it because no one would buy it at the prices they need to charge. They would just get more people screaming about how evil the insurance industry is.

It costs money to have the actuaries go thru and develop pricing for a niche product. If they spend $500k developing pricing for 40yr old $5k boats and they only expect to sell 10 policies/yr...Just covering the development is going to be $10k before any claims or administrative costs, so in reality, 10 policies/yr is wildly optimistic.

Easier to just say they don't offer policies in these niche areas. Keep in mind, they are businesses not public services.

[Amapola]

BoatUS/GEICO has renewed our 1979 trawler for another year. I don't know how long they will grandfather us in though.

[Moontide]

Interesting that they feel they can cancel at any time for this. An insurance policy is a contract and unless there is a provision allowing them to change the terms unilaterally I'm not sure they can "legally" do this. Maybe if they claim you made a misrepresentation (value) in the application.


I would have to do a detailed reading to try and find out what the basis is for them modifying after you have completed (paid) the contract.


My guess is there is no provision saying they can reduce coverage after the fact. But they just be trying to bluff you into it. Also, most states limit why and how an insurance company can cancel a payment. From my experience they all have to give at least 30 days unless it is for non-payment.


I'll also bet environmental only coverage is pretty cheap as a separate policy.

[marcvilleneuve]

[QUOTE=Moontide;3641885]Interesting that they feel they can cancel at any time for this. An insurance policy is a contract and unless there is a provision allowing them to change the terms unilaterally I'm not sure they can "legally" do this. Maybe if they claim you made a misrepresentation (value) in the application.

This is a ONE YEAR contrat that you are most likely to be able to RENEW but there is no guaranty about that.

[BuoyCall]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

I need to find another insurance company quickly, that will take my 1977 50-foot schooner. I renewed the policy a month ago with Progressive, who I have been with for five years with no claims. Last week they sent me a cancellation notice, effective this coming Friday, because “The insured value is more than the market value.” Which they agreed in writing in the new policy by the way.
I am trying to sort it out, but I’m not hopeful, so I need a backup plan.

Have you found coverage? If you need help I have access to several carriers if you would like me to run your numbers. Ler me know. Frank

[osprey877]

[QUOTE=valhalla360;3638459]
It's generally a good idea to keep the dollar value close to what they think the market value is. This will result in this statement having minimal impact. If you have a $50k boat and set it at $200k, you gain nothing in the event of a claim. The premiums will be based on a $200k boat but they will only pay out based the $50k value (of course, they don't like having wildly divergent numbers as that could be susceptible to fraud and/or legal fights over the value).

Nor is it a good idea to under-insure the vessel. As others have noted, the agreed or stated value of the vessel is a measure of the financial risk being assumed by the Insurer and is accordingly used to set the premium amount. If you have a $1 million boat that you insure for an agreed value of, say, $100,000.00, the insurer can refuse a claim on the basis that you undervalued the risk they were assuming when they agreed to insure the boat, especially with respect to partial losses where $50K partial loss claims are going to be much more likely on a $1 million vessel than on a $100K boat.
Also, it is my understanding that the insurance company can cancel your insurance at any time, without any reason, provided they give you (and your bank if you have a mortgage on the boat) prior written notice. The exact amount of notice required is usually set out in some state or provincial insurance legislation. You may be entitled to a pro-rated refund on a prepaid annual premium, but not much else.