Watch system?

[Pyxis156]

Helped a friend move his sailboat from the Med to the Caribbean. There were four of us, we did 3 on / 9 off and it worked great. Everyone got sleep, and if the person on watch needed help they would get / wake the person that had the next watch (almost never happened). Made the trip enjoyable for me, and the rest of the crew seemed happy as well.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I cannot PM you as your inbox is full.

Yep, Paypal tried to auto-renew my CF Sponsor payment with an expired card so I'm temporarily back to Ordinary member with a small mailbox

I immediately updated the card details when PP notified me of the failure and they tell me that they will process it again today. So hopefully I should be able to receive PMs again in the next 24 hours.

[Island Time O25]

We always do it this way (46 ft boat with usually a 4 person crew, mostly always friends or friends of friends with some sailing experience, the few times that the skipper took on unproven/less experienced crew he said he should've single handed instead. ). From 8AM to 8PM are basically collegial/informal watches i.e. 2 persons are up and about the cockpit/deck and the other 2 do whatever - catching up on sleep, prepping their favorite foods, etc. From 8PM, after dinner, we do 3hr 1 person watches with a 2nd person on standby, i.e snoozing in the main cabin or in the cockpit. In case of anything the word from the skipper is to wake him up ASAP, no mater when he went off watch. Skipper's favorite watch time is 5AM to 8AM as he's an early riser anyway. Mine is 11PM to 2AM as I am a later sleeper. I guess it is best to adjust the watch schedule to crew's individual body rhythms, at least that's what we found works best for us.

[Lodesman]

Jackdale, perhaps you didn't notice the watch system in your original post is missing a couple periods 2000-2200 and 0200-0400.
The "modified Swedish" system sounds brutal but admittedly I haven't tried it. How long is the passage? I would think a two-watch system would be better given the crew experience level, and if out long enough I would opt to settle into a steady (as opposed to rotating) watch, where you stand the same times each day - then either 6-hour watches or 7 and 5.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Jackdale, perhaps you didn't notice the watch system in your original post is missing a couple periods 2000-2200 and 0200-0400.

Jet lag - 32 hours of flights home.

Originally Posted by Lodesman

The "modified Swedish" system sounds brutal but admittedly I haven't tried it. How long is the passage? I would think a two-watch system would be better given the crew experience level, and if out long enough I would opt to settle into a steady (as opposed to rotating) watch, where you stand the same times each day - then either 6-hour watches or 7 and 5.

I was introduced to modified Swedish system on my first delivery as crew from Maui to Vancouver, BC. When we arrived after 21 days, I was refreshed and had no problems getting back into the grove. Since then I have used on three more Maui - Vancouver trips, one Newport, RI - Bermuda- St Barths, one Caribbean crossing, one South Atlantic crossing, 12 circumnavigations of Vancouver Island each with a few overnighters, and several 48 hour non-stop trips in Georgia Strait. Many of those were Offshore courses I was teaching. When teaching I take myself out of the watch cycle so that I can work will all the crew / students. . I also have developed a watch checklist to accompany the watch system.

As the evening meal is the most onerous to make and clean up after, rotating that among the crew seems to work.

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

With 4 crew we did 2 hours on, 6 hours off. The "on watch" crews job was to do just that- watch. If any changes needed to be made the next on watch was roused, so there were two to do the job, and everyone got 4 hours sleep at least.

It worked well for us.

Ditto. 2/6 has always worked for me too. I'd rather be on the same shift every day

[StuM]

Originally Posted by jackdale

...
I was introduced to modified Swedish system on my first delivery as crew from Maui to Vancouver, BC. When we arrived after 21 days, I was refreshed and had no problems getting back into the grove. I also have developed a watch checklist to accompany the watch system.

As the evening meal is the most onerous to make and clean up after, rotating that among the crew seems to work.

I've also been using the modified Swedish for many years. In my opinion it is far better than any of the alternatives I've experienced. Fortunately, these days I get to at least recommend, if not decide on what watch system will be used.

Excellent checklist. I'm going to steal that.

(BTW, PP reprocessed my "supporter subscription" so my mailbox is open again. )

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

Ditto. 2/6 has always worked for me too. I'd rather be on the same shift every day

Individual preferences vary. I much prefer rotating shifts. doing a 0000-0400 every night would be a PITA to me.

I dislike having only one person on watch so that if anything happens, the watch keeper has to get someone below awake and active.

I think it is much better to have two people "on watch" where those two take it in turns being "active" and "resting/standby" depending on circumstances. On a four hour night watch, that may be anything from "30 min on/30 min off" to "2 hrs on/2 hrs off" according to weather/ how exposed the watch position is/ manual steering v autopilot/ etc, etc.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by StuM

Given your stated crew, I'd go with two watches. My preferred 2 watch system is "modified Swedish":

A 0600 - 1200
B 1200 - 1800
A 1800 - 2300
B 2300 - 0300
A 0300 - 0600

I like that one.

I would personally not assign every crew an individual watch. With four sailors I would have no more than three watches, and keep someone in reserve -- maybe yourself.

I sometimes leave myself out of the watch rotation and make myself the backup, since anyway it's the case that I will be the first one called if anyone needs any help, and I'll be the first one awake if the weather pipes up. I am anyway the one to do all the collision avoidance, radar watches, navigation, etc., etc. Also cooking, equipment operation/repair, etc.

Then also I'm available to just take over a watch from someone getting tired. I am personally most active and alert on the "graveyard" shift which most people don't want. 22 to 04 or 00 to 06 or whatever, then I get my best kip in the morning afterwards when others are most active and there is usually more than one person awake.

[hoppy]

When we did a 4 night sail recently, there were 4 onboard and we only had defined watches between 8pm and 8am. We did 2 on for 3 hours (20, 23, 02, 05) and alternated each evening who did the first watch. During the day we had no defined watches.

Usually the crew on the 05 watch would go below for a nap at 08 and others would take the opportunity for a nap during the day.

I really wonder if day time watches are really so necessary when it's a small group of friends.

[Hobie_ind]

Last year I did the run from Fiji to NZ with 4 friends (7) days. They mostly had limited coastal sailing experience previously although I had completed a Vancouver Island circumnavigation as crew.

The watch system I used was set up with 2 person - 3 hour watches for the first two days with myself in the rotation to spend time with each of them. After the first two days I migrated it to a watch system where from 6 am to 9 pm it was solo 3 hour watches and from 9 pm to 3 pm 2 person - 3 hour watches. We thought it worked well and everyone was in pretty good shape upon arrival in Opua even after a bit of a bash for the last 2-1/2 days.

Standing instructions were to get me up for any of the following:
- Initial sighting of traffic (visual or AIS)
- Reefing
- Significant wx changes (large wind shifts requiring track changes, approaching squall or cells on radar/visual, lightning, etc)
- Anything that concerned them.
May seem excessive, but I'm lucky in that I can be up quickly for something then fall back asleep deeply almost immediately afterwards (frustrates my wife immensely who's a light sleeper!). Plus our boat had a really dry cockpit and a great sea berth just behind the companionway so I was handy and typically didn't even have to leave the companionway or put on foul wx gear for most things.

For the remainder of the trip (1 year in the Caribbean and 2 years in the South Pacific) it was just my wife and I, along with our 12-14 year old daughter (our son has autism so can't take watches). Typically, our watch system was pretty informal during the day with someone in the cockpit, but no fixed schedule. I would typically take a watch from 9 pm to 3 am, and my wife from 3 am to 7 am. As our daughter gained experience and maturity she started taking formal watches typically from 8 pm to 11 pm which brought mine back to 4 hours. I'm a night owl, and can nap well during the day. My wife needs longer periods of uninterrupted sleep and doesn't nap well. It's not for everyone, but it worked well for us and we didn't find longer passages that tiring.

As an aside, when I was renewing our insurance before leaving for the South Pacific our broker recommended including our daughter (just turing 13) on the crew resume (with a summary of her experience) as some of the insurers wanted additional experienced crew for passages over 300 miles offshore (or something similar I don't have the policy handy). When the quotes came back, the one we went with had a note on the policy specifically naming our daughter as meeting the requirement for the third experienced crew.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by StuM

Individual preferences vary. I much prefer rotating shifts. doing a 0000-0400 every night would be a PITA to me.

I dislike having only one person on watch so that if anything happens, the watch keeper has to get someone below awake and active.

I think it is much better to have two people "on watch" where those two take it in turns being "active" and "resting/standby" depending on circumstances. On a four hour night watch, that may be anything from "30 min on/30 min off" to "2 hrs on/2 hrs off" according to weather/ how exposed the watch position is/ manual steering v autopilot/ etc, etc.

I have had APs break down at least three times. One Vic Maui race boat which I brought back twice had no AP.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I like that one.

I would personally not assign every crew an individual watch. With four sailors I would have no more than three watches, and keep someone in reserve -- maybe yourself.

Modified Swedish also works very well with 3 watches.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Admittedly better.

My concern is one person on deck.

The crew:

2 with no bluewater passage experience (the owners, who admit to issues with mal de mer)
1 with one passage of 21 days
me

Are you familiar with a system similar to that in the original post?

Oooh, been on those trips before....single handing while baby sitting sick crew/owners...worse than just single handing.

Although the other crew with at least one long passage will probably be useful.

When possible, I like to always have 2 on watch and ideally have some overlap between watches (especially if things are busy/severe weather).

I suggest that you and your experienced crew be the "watch captains" with one of the inexperienced (and likely sea sick) crew as always on watch with a watch captain.

Relaxed schecule during the day with fair weather, just 1 officially on watch, others can rest.

[sobraon]

I have to agree with Boatman, the Royal Navies ( Australian in my case) have been using the rotating 4 watch system since Noah was a seaman. The dog watch is split for rotation.

Works great when there are at least 4 crew, however when the Navy goes to a defense state of two watches it uses a Two Watch Modification that marries the dogs and splits the guts. ie:

Forenoon 0800 -1200
Afternoon 1200 -1600
Dogs 1600 -2000
1st Guts 2000 - 0200
2nd Guts 0200 - 0800

This allows for a rotation of the watch and you get a good 6 hour break every day.

We find this works perfectly with just the two of us and would be as good with 4 crew combining into just 2 watches.
We are always both awake at least during the dogs so sail preps for the evening are easily handled and we enjoy that we are both together for our main meal of the day. The 6 hour break keeps you alert and fresh for days.

Garry
sv Spirit of Sobraon