Water cop update

[Brent Swain]

What Hello Sailor is proposing is the Neville Chaimberlain approach to dealing with bullies in power, and the abuse of civil liberties in our consitution.. How well did it work for Neville Chaimberland? Where did his approach get us?
Joe Kenedy in a similar statement in the late 30s said "I don't know why Britain is making such a fuss in opposing Hitler, when they have no hope of ever defeating Hitler. I think Britain should accept the inevitable and surender to Hitler immediately." Where would we be today if the British had accepted Kenedy's "Hello sailor ' style advice?
The more resistance they meet when trying to violate out charter rights the more reluctant they will be to try. That is human nature.
It reminds me of a poster that a mountie once showed me . It said "Madam, You have just been approached by a mountie. Don't panick. Just take your clothes off and do everything the nice mountie askes you to do." Would she be OK with that, requirement?
Allowing violations of the Charter of rights to go unchallenged , encourages ever deeper violations, and makes such violations the norm.
Gord , Bob Rae went further than anyone else in allowing civilian oversight of cops in Ontario, something my friend Gabelmann didn't have the balls to do in BC nor has any politico since had the balls to do. Ontario is far ahead of the rest of Canada in this regard.
Cops do a great job of busting Hells angels and other self interested goons, Child abusers , hard dope dealers. They greatly undermine their abilty to do so when they undermine public support by harrassing inocent people who break no laws, like people out for a cruise.
With wife abusers they have a conflict of interest problem , cops and military having the greatest percentage of wife abusers amoung them of any group. I suspect judges and prosecutors are not far behind.
I had a friend who was a family abuse victim. She asked for help from a mountie who was a friend of her abuser, to help her get to a shelter. The cop refused and she was beaten again. The cop alegedly suggested her husband use a "Ballistic " solution on her. She filed a a complaint against him and was subsequently framed and beaten regularly by the mounties.
I heard a woman on CBC who was heavily involved in the family abuse issue. When asked if a woman being abused by her husband should call the mounties she said. Don't. The mounties will treat you far worse then your abuser, given their impunity and the fact that so many of them are themselves wife abusers. I and others who have tried to help abuse victims have the same feelings. Perhaps calling a big brother , relative or hit man would be a better solution. I've beat the crap out of a few.
Real men don't allow anyone to abuse a family member, only cowards do.
Thats a family responsibility.
Brent

[hellosailor]

"What Hello Sailor is proposing is the Neville Chaimberlain approach to dealing with bullies in power,"
Is it now? Perhaps I have been misled, I was taught that Chamberlain was big into appeasement. That's not at all what I have suggested. In the US, "we the people" are not only encouraged to exert control against our authorities, we are often *mandated* to put the brakes on them when they go wrong.

That we have largely forgotten and ignored these obligations, is probably what is behind the collapse of our civilization and economy alike.

Perhaps you would be better to think of Churchill, and how conveniently we were not taught about Gallipoli until the 90's, because Churchill and his entire generation of leadership were so affected by that ballsup.

As Franklin and others remarked, a people will get the government they deserve. If your government is sanctioning the beating of your people, you probably deserve to be beaten. If for nothing else, then for giving up your rights and powers to throw down a bad government by force of arms. Which, our founding fathers made clear, was the purpose behind our own second amendment, now so cleverly buried by our leaders. Like Gallipoli.

Nothing new here.

[DeepFrz]

the prosecutors, their colleagues delay any response as long as possible to give the cop an unreasonable delay defence.

Wasn't there just a case in Toronto, where the cops had charges dismissed because of delays in prosecution?

Oh yes, here it is.

DELAY DERAILS POLICE CORRUPTION CHARGES

Victory for Six Toronto Officers

A judge has thrown out corruption charges against six Toronto police officers, citing the 10-year delay in bringing their case to trial and sharply rebuking Crown prosecutors for what he called "the glacial progress of this prosecution."

And an interesting report.

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/publi.../ferguson1.pdf

Remember Sgt. Pepper? Mr. Dziekanski?

[Pblais]

From a purely political stand point this thread is about as off topic as we care to go for here on Cruisers Forum. With the times of the world as they are we don't need this much political commentary NOT RELATED TO BOATING!

[Brent Swain]

Harrassment of people on boats is very related to cruising and a growing threat to boaters, the freedom of the boating lifestyle, and boating related industries. It is a thin line, and balancing act, between the gangsters and goons taking away our freedom, and big brother being given the power to do the same thing. Keeping our cruising freedoms requires constant vigilance, accepting the undermining of such freedoms from no one , neither government nor goons and criminals.
I remember an item on the news about a Toronto cop who was being investigated for a criminal offence, which he confessed to . He was put on paid leave, a paid vacation with full pay , for 3 years. This sent a clear message to police, if you break the law , your punishment may be a three year vacation with full pay.
Is this what motivates water cops to violate the law, as in the charter of rights. Some incentive! Some accountability.
Brent

[Pblais]

Harassment of people on boats is very related to cruising and a growing threat to boaters, the freedom of the boating lifestyle, and boating related industries. It is a thin line, and balancing act, between the gangsters and goons taking away our freedom, and big brother being given the power to do the same thing.

No it's not - it's political. It's local political power executed for the benefit of a few local constituents. That is basic democracy in action. Some politicians once paid deliver what they promise. Not everything its a political conspiracy to get you as hard as that may seem.

[Guzzi]

Originally Posted by seaclusion

While there is no law that says you must carry ID, here in Florida we have a law that says an LEO can detain you for as long as he wants until you identify yourself or answer his questions to his satisfaction.

Richard

That law is unconstitutional and violates the 4th Amendment.

[hellosailor]

Guzzi, the fourth amendment doesn't apply in Floriduh. They don't allow counting above "tha-ree" because it might embarass folks.

There is, however, talk of paying more for standardized teaching and testing once the recession passes, and perhaps allowing numbers as high as "ten" sometime by 2030.

That is of course, unless the fourth amendment continues to be repealed in other states before then. Floriduh is sadly far from the only one that just doesn't have leaders willing and able to read it.

[S/V Elusive]

Oh my gosh - I'm so surprised. NOT .. once again an interesting topic has been misdirected to politics. This is NOT the venue to debate US law or parts there of.

Please keep it on topic, or we will once again, close it. This is your warning.

[hellosailor]

"This is NOT the venue to debate US law"
How about splitting the thread and moving it to a more correct section, dealing with the laws governing sailors, and how they are sometimes improperly ignored or enforced? It isn't politics, any more than the UN Law of the Seas is. Or asking why sailors in the US need to have placards aboard displaying MARPOL and oil discharge regulations, and whether a garbage discharge plan really accomplishes anything on a war canoe with no galley. Where it still is required to be posted.
How about a new section for "quaint and peculiar local customs and masters" ?

Seems to be as reasonable as asking why a ten year old wearing a camo pattern t-shirt can be arrested for espionage in Bardados. (Quaint local prohibition on camo wear, sailors who are ex-military, beware.)

[Chief Engineer]

Call Gordland Security!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This thread has been hijacked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pblais]

"This is NOT the venue to debate US law" How about splitting the thread and moving it to a more correct section, dealing with the laws governing sailors, and how they are sometimes improperly ignored or enforced?

We don't have a section for practicing the law or just whining about it. It was not an oversight. Legal arguments outside the court room by people not licensed to practice the law are by definition politics when attempting to be polite. We are less concerned with giving politics a bad name by using the definition that way but it works.

I think this thread has been hijacked at least 3 times so far. It tends to happen when the discussion gets too political.

[hellosailor]

So, with a thread title "Water cop update" what would be non-political? The term "cop" itself is dergoatory slang, so it can't be an employment opportunity thread.

Perhaps keeping the discussion to the science of psycholinguistics or the alleged pseudoscience of sociology might be more proper? Etymology?

Or humour, surely there must be good clean humor dealing with water horses, water spouts, water cops, and other purely water-based topics?

If a water cop rides a water horse, is he subject to ColRegs while in motion?

[bella]

Originally Posted by seaclusion

While there is no law that says you must carry ID, here in Florida we have a law that says an LEO can detain you for as long as he wants until you identify yourself or answer his questions to his satisfaction.

Richard

Richard would you be so kind as to cite the exact statute under Florida Law that states this? so far I Have been unable to locate it.

Just a thought here... what If I refused to answer, "when was the last time I Had sex?" because a LEO asked me .. he could detain me until I did tell him that answer?

[sailorboy1]

Anything new on the water cop topic itself?