Ways solo sail into slip safely

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

What a peculiar idea! Possibly almost true when the gods have organized a nice beam reach down the fairway and a windward berth, but how about when the narrow fairway down which lies your berth is directly to windward? Please describe the drills that will make this even possible, let alone easy!



Amazing.



There are times when anchoring outside the marina is the best alternative, and waiting whilst you repair the engine or the wind becomes more amenable.

Jim

Perhaps then you could tell us your strategy for sailing directly upwind to your intended destination through a narrow channel in the reef?

Also, could you tell us if perhaps the same strategy can be applied when the wind is directly from the dock down a long fairway with the destination slip at the far end?

And just for some variety, perhaps you could also tell us if your intended strategy could be useful in every other possible situation where the weather gods don't grant us perfect winds, waves, and temperatures and we have the luxury of safely waiting until the odds are more favorable to success instead of tragedy?


And then, of course, can you inform us from your lofty crag of excellence how one learns if one never attempts to do anything?


The point I'm making is that anyone can formulate any scenario where the general rules don't apply. Most sailors know to not try to do things, if they can help it, when the weather is against them. And, while events can quickly spiral out of control even under normal circumstances, and often have with accompanying loss of life and property, using a hypothetical built on only 1 possibly adverse situation merely to deride someone is about the most trollish internet behavior anyone can engage in. Especially, when it's done from what appears to be a position of malice and/or a total lack of self awareness.

What is really appalling is when this temperament and behavior are repeatedly displayed by a forum moderator. A moderator who apparently is so clueless he cannot conceive of a world where ships plied the oceans for centuries and still managed to make it to port often enough that it was considered a reliable means of transportation. With nary an engine in sight on the entire planet the whole time.

And yet somehow they managed to get it done; wind, waves, weather be damned.

I wonder if it's because those mariners actually got off their butts to go out and do it instead of not even bothering to try because "what if the Krakens...!!!"

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Sailing into the slip isn't much different than motoring in.

Sailing to the dock is a skill that can be mastered with some practice at a dock and by practicing the man overboard drill where you stop the boat on a mark by luffing the sails. The trick is to luff early and coast a lot. You have to learn that you will coast longer than you think you need to and that you can't rush it.

Sailing into the slip does require that you have more prep than motoring. Spring lines are an absolute necessity and you need to practice dropping them over the cleat while simulating all the other things you'll be doing at the same time.

The practice drills will engrave the steps in your mind. I know, I'm still doing the drills.

Motoring is the same except the sails are already furled (hopefully anyway). Kick it out of gear as soon as you can and coast. I usually do this at least 75-100 yards away from the slip after idling into the fairway. I rarely use any throttle on the way home after dropping the sails but that's because I don't have far to go from the point where I can do that to get to the slip.

You can add forward thrust if you're going to be short in making it into the slip, but I prefer to wait until that actually happens instead of doing it early. Adding forward speed just because you think you won't make it, usually means you have to scrub off that extra speed with either a fast turn or putting the transmission into reverse and adding throttle. The saying is; if you're not bored while docking, you're doing it wrong. Trust me, if you're only bored, you're still moving too fast.

Speaking of turns, start your turn from the far side of the fairway opposite your slip. It gives you a longer glide, a wider turning arc, and gives you more time to react if something needs done before you crash into the dock.

Once you're committed to going into the slip, put the transmission into reverse and keep the engine at idle. If you time it all correctly, the boat will stop exactly where you want it and in that half second between moving forward and starting to go backward, you can pop it into neutral and be perfectly stationary in the slip.

If you need to scrub off more speed on the way in, a quick burst of throttle while the transmission is in reverse will do that. If you need more, then keep doing it by small throttle bursts and returning to idle. This will keep the prop walk down so you won't have to correct for it.

This is my usual docking sequence. I did this exact thing on a "first time" sail in a Hunter 28 a couple of weeks ago. We came in on a glide, made the wide turn and stopped next to the dock steps with a single burst of throttle in reverse before returning both controls to idle and neutral, my "crew" stepped off and dropped the springline over the mid cleat on the dock. He didn't need to do anything except tie it off and hold his hand out for the stern line. We were absolutely dead in the water when he stepped off.

Had I not had crew aboard, I could have done it all myself without worrying about the boat getting away from me.

They say "slow is pro" but don't lose momentum. The more wind there is (other than wind blowing you directly on), the more momentum you need going into the dock to maintain control. You should not make your main technique, one that only works in a dead calm, and that's what this one sounds like.

And don't make your turn early. The turn converts forward motion into lateral motion, which is what you need to get onto the dock without forward motion which will have you scraping along it. Watch the pros do it -- they head into the dock at a fairly steep angle, and turn at the last moment. What Captain Ron did in the famous scene is exaggerated, but this is essentially correct technique.

Couple of tips based on a few decades of experience.

And what's this about sailing on? As others have said, sailing on is TOTALLY different from motoring on. Sailing around in a crowded marina is fairly irresponsible, other than with very small vessels (small enough that you can correct issues with the force of your own arms, and you can pull your boom around by hand), and certainly if single handed. Harbour maneuvers is why God invented diesel engines. I doubt if my insurance company would even pay if I crashed into something trying to sail into a marina slip.

Stay safe. And one last tip -- one or two successes does not prove that a technique works. Practice a lot, and in different conditions.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Perhaps then you could tell us your strategy for sailing directly upwind to your intended destination through a narrow channel in the reef?

Also, could you tell us if perhaps the same strategy can be applied when the wind is directly from the dock down a long fairway with the destination slip at the far end?

And just for some variety, perhaps you could also tell us if your intended strategy could be useful in every other possible situation where the weather gods don't grant us perfect winds, waves, and temperatures and we have the luxury of safely waiting until the odds are more favorable to success instead of tragedy?


And then, of course, can you inform us from your lofty crag of excellence how one learns if one never attempts to do anything?


The point I'm making is that anyone can formulate any scenario where the general rules don't apply. Most sailors know to not try to do things, if they can help it, when the weather is against them. And, while events can quickly spiral out of control even under normal circumstances, and often have with accompanying loss of life and property, using a hypothetical built on only 1 possibly adverse situation merely to deride someone is about the most trollish internet behavior anyone can engage in. Especially, when it's done from what appears to be a position of malice and/or a total lack of self awareness.

What is really appalling is when this temperament and behavior are repeatedly displayed by a forum moderator. A moderator who apparently is so clueless he cannot conceive of a world where ships plied the oceans for centuries and still managed to make it to port often enough that it was considered a reliable means of transportation. With nary an engine in sight on the entire planet the whole time.

And yet somehow they managed to get it done; wind, waves, weather be damned.

I wonder if it's because those mariners actually got off their butts to go out and do it instead of not even bothering to try because "what if the Krakens...!!!"

Rob, IMO you are out of line with this post. There are many things sailboats cannot do, regardless of what ancient mariners may have done. The ancient mariners survived to sail another day because they knew when to call it quits and anchor rather than try to come up with some way to do the impossible and end up doing something really dumb.
I think your read of malice and "trollish" behavior here is off the mark. Jim was responding to the idea that sailing into a slip is just like motoring into one. Pretty obvious that is not the case and uninformed to suggest it. There is no case or cause here to try to insult Jim IMO. He was trying to help you see that what you are saying is not always the case. Humility is a virtue.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

A moderator who apparently is so clueless he cannot conceive of a world where ships plied the oceans for centuries and still managed to make it to port often enough that it was considered a reliable means of transportation. With nary an engine in sight on the entire planet the whole time.

And yet somehow they managed to get it done; wind, waves, weather be

Jim actually mentioned how they got it done. They anchored, and waited for conditions to turn in their favor. That's also how they got out of port when the wind was in their teeth: By waiting days, weeks, until conditions changed.

As for your scenario of sailing into the teeth of a wind coming straight out of a fairway, well, I dunno, I short-tack a 27' racer upwind as efficiently as anyone I know, and there's a width-of-channel after which even I can't make headway. It's basic physics. You drop the sails and skull in using the tiller.

Don also mentioned oars. That's another way the ships that brought a whole word back brought that world into port.

[barryglewis]

Before motors harbours were generally equipped with large mooring bollards and dolphins placed so vessels could be warped in and out of berths. Warps would be carried out if needed by boats . And yes, harbours were frequently full of vessels weather bound waiting for a free wind

[Don C L]

If you can fit it, and you have low enough freeboard, a sweep oar off the stern can do wonders for making things easier if you have a full keel boat that does not turn well backwards or forwards. With the sweep you can pull or push the stern around to where you want it, or coax it into the direction you'd like to go in reverse. You don't need the prop wash over the rudder to kick the stern around. And then there is the yuloh too!
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ar-145638.html
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ed-207956.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dceYiJDQoNo

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

What is really appalling is when this temperament and behavior are repeatedly displayed by a forum moderator. A moderator who apparently is so clueless he cannot conceive of a world where ships plied the oceans for centuries and still managed to make it to port often enough that it was considered a reliable means of transportation. With nary an engine in sight on the entire planet the whole time.

And yet somehow they managed to get it done; wind, waves, weather be damned.

I wonder if it's because those mariners actually got off their butts to go out and do it instead of not even bothering to try because "what if the Krakens...!!!"

Or maybe becuase they had large crews and ships' boats? :

[DMF Sailing]

I suppose now's the time to say that I've gotten a J-24 into that slip at low tide.

(And so can everyone else who learns)

Skulling, Rob.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Don C L

If you can fit it, and you have low enough freeboard, a sweep oar off the stern can do wonders for making things easier if you have a full keel boat that does not turn well backwards or forwards. With the sweep you can pull or push the stern around to where you want it, or coax it into the direction you'd like to go in reverse. You don't need the prop wash over the rudder to kick the stern around. And then there is the yuloh too!
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ar-145638.html
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ed-207956.html

Try that with 15-20 knots on the nose trying to turn your stern to wind.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Perhaps then you could tell us your strategy for sailing directly upwind to your intended destination through a narrow channel in the reef?

Also, could you tell us if perhaps the same strategy can be applied when the wind is directly from the dock down a long fairway with the destination slip at the far end?

And just for some variety, perhaps you could also tell us if your intended strategy could be useful in every other possible situation where the weather gods don't grant us perfect winds, waves, and temperatures and we have the luxury of safely waiting until the odds are more favorable to success instead of tragedy?


And then, of course, can you inform us from your lofty crag of excellence how one learns if one never attempts to do anything?


The point I'm making is that anyone can formulate any scenario where the general rules don't apply. Most sailors know to not try to do things, if they can help it, when the weather is against them. And, while events can quickly spiral out of control even under normal circumstances, and often have with accompanying loss of life and property, using a hypothetical built on only 1 possibly adverse situation merely to deride someone is about the most trollish internet behavior anyone can engage in. Especially, when it's done from what appears to be a position of malice and/or a total lack of self awareness.

What is really appalling is when this temperament and behavior are repeatedly displayed by a forum moderator. A moderator who apparently is so clueless he cannot conceive of a world where ships plied the oceans for centuries and still managed to make it to port often enough that it was considered a reliable means of transportation. With nary an engine in sight on the entire planet the whole time.

And yet somehow they managed to get it done; wind, waves, weather be damned.

I wonder if it's because those mariners actually got off their butts to go out and do it instead of not even bothering to try because "what if the Krakens...!!!"

Rob, must say I find you one of the more intriguing commentators here on the forum. On the one hand you seem to draw on practical boating experience which outshines even the most hardy sailor on here, on the other you need extensive moral support when sitting fairly simple 101 sailing exams.

I for one would be super keen to hear how this inner 'conflict' came about. On the one hand a high degree of practical experience (maybe you can reveal a bit how you gained this?) while on the other no theoretical basis. And I don't believe that there any sailors anywhere who are highly proficient at sea yet have no idea of the theory behind what they do. I ask all this with the utmost respect.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barryglewis

Before motors harbours were generally equipped with large mooring bollards and dolphins placed so vessels could be warped in and out of berths. Warps would be carried out if needed by boats . And yes, harbours were frequently full of vessels weather bound waiting for a free wind

Before motors, ships were wrecked so frequently that there was even a whole profession of plundering the cargoes! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrecking_(shipwreck)


The great yachtspeople the Pardeys, authors and serial circumnavigators, used a boat without a motor. To get into harbours and get docked they usually asked for a tow. From a vessel with a motor.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by StuM

Try that with 15-20 knots on the nose trying to turn your stern to wind.

I tried rowing off the anchor and out of a quiet cove out into the breeze for fun last year. Even just the breath of wind and teaspoon swirl of a current I had against me had me breaking a sweat trying to get the 4 ton boat going the direction I wanted. It worked, I made it, but if you ever want to REALLY appreciate just how much power your sails have, try rowing.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Rob, IMO you are out of line with this post. There are many things sailboats cannot do, regardless of what ancient mariners may have done. The ancient mariners survived to sail another day because they knew when to call it quits and anchor rather than try to come up with some way to do the impossible and end up doing something really dumb.
I think your read of malice and "trollish" behavior here is off the mark. Jim was responding to the idea that sailing into a slip is just like motoring into one. Pretty obvious that is not the case and uninformed to suggest it. There is no case or cause here to try to insult Jim IMO. He was trying to help you see that what you are saying is not always the case. Humility is a virtue.

I don't really think you get the gist of what I've posted.

I'm merely tired of a certain moderator posting in my threads with no other apparent purpose except to bash and insult. His posts are NOT helpful in the slightest because he takes extreme examples and tries to portray them as the norm.

Something in there about "the exception not being the rule" I believe.


This thread is a perfect example. Here we have someone who is obviously not all that experienced and is asking for techniques to use to help him get better at docking.

Of what value is it to mention that you can't sail to the dock if the wind is off the dock? He didn't mention anything like that being a problem and the way I read it, he was just asking for "how to" technique suggestions.

He admitted he made a mistake in the thread title and corrected it to mean motoring in rather than sailing in, but the fact is; he wants to learn how to do it safely because he doesn't have much experience.

I gave him my thoughts about my recently acquired abilities and said that sailing in isn't any harder than motoring in because the docking techniques use the same fundamentals. Basically: Depower early, coast a lot, and give yourself as much time and space as you can so you can correct before hitting something.

On the other hand, the adverse "advice" given by that certain moderator contradicting what I said helps no one, gives no insights on how to begin to learn, teaches NOTHING, and makes the person who posted it sound like a crotchety old curmudgeon with nothing better to do than say something contrary just for the sake of being contrary.

Yes, ancient mariners knew to anchor and wait for more favorable conditions. How is that any different than if the only source you have for making headway in your Catalina 22 is from the wind?

And what exactly does saying any of that do to help someone get into their slip in good weather when that's likely the only time they're on the water?

Further, if that's the case and you really can't get in because you have no auxiliary power, the wind is seriously against you, and you have a medical emergency, did someone forget to bring the radio? Or lose their voice so they can't shout for help from a passing boat?

The post was a "help me get better" request. Telling someone that he's screwed isn't "advice". It's not "helpful" either. It's just BS and a Moderator should know better than to say it.


Off topic:

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...AzIQvxMIogsoAA

You can probably find a red & white striped T shirt to make a tiny sail out of.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

Rob, must say I find you one of the more intriguing commentators here on the forum. On the one hand you seem to draw on practical boating experience which outshines even the most hardy sailor on here, on the other you need extensive moral support when sitting fairly simple 101 sailing exams.

I for one would be super keen to hear how this inner 'conflict' came about. On the one hand a high degree of practical experience (maybe you can reveal a bit how you gained this?) while on the other no theoretical basis. And I don't believe that there any sailors anywhere who are highly proficient at sea yet have no idea of the theory behind what they do. I ask all this with the utmost respect.

It's not an inner conflict.

I went sailing the first time in my teens. I stopped because life got in the way. I managed to do some intermittent regatta sailing over the decades but I don't have any real time on the water.

The mechanical aspect of sailing a boat isn't that difficult. When I started, I had exactly zero knowledge of how to do it and there wasn't anyone in my sphere of friends/acquaintances who knew how. Me and a couple of friends tossed some old junk wooden dink with a sawed off mast and sail into the water, pushed off and went sailing. We learned on the go and made a ton of mistakes. We went swimming a lot and learned how to swim to shallow water and pull on the rope we'd tied to the boat so we could unswamp it and sail some more. Kids.

Fast forward to today. I'm working my butt off saving as much as I can for my upcoming retirement but need something to do once I retire. I don't own a boat but there's a marina which will let me charter one IF I have the required certifications (or years of experience which I don't have). The better I do on the exams, the easier it will be to charter "up" from the smaller boats because they will know that I can sail and have the knowledge on how to do it safely and within the regs/rules. That adds stressors because I have an end goal and choking on an exam isn't part of that.

Plus, perfectionism never takes a holiday.


So there you have it. In a nutshell, I'm crazy.

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

and makes the person who posted it sound like a crotchety old curmudgeon with nothing better to do than say something contrary just for the sake of being contrary.

Some threads seem to attract those that just want to prove their greater knowledge and experience. There are lots of them here on CF, you have to winnow out the chaff and keep the grain. It is especially true on the "Rules of the Road" forum.

jon