Ways solo sail into slip safely

[Jim Cate]

There must be 50 ways to sail into a slip safely.

Perhaps not quite that many safe ways, but easily that many to do so unsafely and/or unsuccessfully!

Totally situation dependent, but I still maintain that there are plenty of situations where it is simply impossible to sail her in. Tow, swim, kedge, get pushed by a friendly sea creature, sure, but not sail.

Jim

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Perhaps not quite that many safe ways, but easily that many to do so unsafely and/or unsuccessfully!

Totally situation dependent, but I still maintain that there are plenty of situations where it is simply impossible to sail her in. Tow, swim, kedge, get pushed by a friendly sea creature, sure, but not sail.

Jim

Touché, Jim

There must be 50 ways to get your boat into the durn slip... white sharks, are you listening? You have snouts! Use them!!!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Y
What you discover, see, is that a boat, even a big boat, in water has neutral weight once it moves.
A human doing side stroke can swim it to shore.

Absent wind and current
(Weight is not an issue, but mass and inertia are)

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by StuM

Absent wind and current
(Weight is not an issue, but mass and inertia are)

aye, Stu. Aye F= mV

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by dfelsent

I remember trying to get to a dock. Engine failed. About 50 feet to the dock. 30’ boat. Glassy calm.
Put one crew in the water to swim a line over.
I’ll never forget that one. Don’t think the crew has either. [emoji1]

Yeah it's not that hard! Just get off of sugar and exercise like Jack!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skRb-oND3qA

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah it's not that hard! Just get off of sugar and exercise like Jack!

another piece of cake, no doubt

Oh, Jack!!

I've never doubted him

Why is it that everything filmed before 1967 looks like film noire??

[Fullbore]

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

aye, Stu. Aye F= mV

Sorry to be such a geek, but

F = mA (mass times acceleration equals force)

mV = momentum.

[fourlyons]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, I apologize to you and everyone else if anything I wrote seemed to be insulting to anyone. That was certainly not my intention.

I was responding to Post #37, where it is stated that sailing into a slip isn't much different from motoring in, and elaborate advice is given, and then the ridiculous Post #61 where Jim Cate is abused for suggesting that sailing in might be harder than has been suggested.

I thought it necessary to set the record straight, in case anyone else reading the thread might pick up misinformation.

No one gives "heated response" to someone just for sailing rather than motoring into a berth. You are one of the rare people with a lot of real experience; we would be all ears I'm sure. That's the opposite of the thing we were responding to, where the person obviously has never done it and is giving wrong advice in a bombastic way, and abusing people for questioning it.

As to the Pardeys -- it's in their book. I'm sure you've also read it.

No apology necessary Dockhead. It seemed out of character, so I assumed was completely unintentional.

I did not read the whole thread all the way from the beginning, so I may have missed those points you mentioned.

Yes, I have sailed in and out of my slip a number of times intentionally, but I have no special insight in how to do it. Other than, as I said earlier, to pick your conditions very carefully and do it slowly. And be ready to bail out, as I have had to. At this point I have an engine in my boat, well two actually, so I only do it every once in awhile to maintain the skill, and it is always nerve-racking! And I always have an engine idling these days!

Jim is quite right, there are obviously many situations where it is simply impossible to sail into a slip; I may have missed it, but I didn't see a claim otherwise.

As for the Pardey's books, yes I have read all of them, some of them more than once. I'm not challenging you, but no, I don't recall them ever admitting to being towed into harbor, I missed that too. Not that they weren't towed into harbor, I'm sure they actually were occasionally. It just annoys me, whenever the discussion of engineless sailing comes up, someone will say "even the Pardey's couldn't really sail without an engine", as if they were being dishonest or something, since they were advocates of relying less on ones engine. Not that you were saying they were dishonest, you weren't.

Up thread you said something to the effect of, we don't want to give beginners the wrong ideas. Well, I would rather encourage beginners to be bolder, I think there is much too little of that these days. There is a lot of tut tuting on cruisers forum about these people on YouTube that, "just buy a cheap boat and go sailing, how irresponsible!" learning on the way. Well rarely do they actually do it quite like that, but I'm happy to see it and want to see more people out there adventuring, not fewer, especially younger people. That's a long winded way of saying, I'd like to see people trying to sail in and out of their slips a little more often.

[SailingPNW]

I think one important thing to have is a plan for what happens if the conditions are so bad that docking single handed in your slip could be dangerous.

For me, my options are to call the marina for help, call friends for help, or dock at the fuel dock and move when it's safer, with the final option being to go anchor a few hours away as there isn't any place close that's protected enough that I could anchor safely in adverse conditions.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by fourlyons

As for the Pardey's books, yes I have read all of them, some of them more than once. I'm not challenging you, but no, I don't recall them ever admitting to being towed into harbor, I missed that too. Not that they weren't towed into harbor, I'm sure they actually were occasionally. It just annoys me, whenever the discussion of engineless sailing comes up, someone will say "even the Pardey's couldn't really sail without an engine", as if they were being dishonest or something, since they were advocates of relying less on ones engine. Not that you were saying they were dishonest, you weren't.

I haven't read the Pardey's books, but Lin did post this on SA a couple of years ago ...

And a final note - I wonder about all these so called tows one of the folks here mentioned. If you take a look at my last newsletter, you will read about the one time I chose to accept a tow into port - due to broken ribs (my own darned fault - yes, Larry did tell me to put up the lee cloth and I didn't listen.).At all other times, if Taleisin had her rig up (i..e not being refitted) we patiently figured out how to sail her where we wanted to go, or anchored until the wind changed, or sculled her except - and yes I kept records - when we were threatened with a $5000 fine for trying to sail into Victoria harbour and twice in Auckland Harbour to get to the race starting line on time when tide was flowing strongly against us. Both of us really enjoyed the challenge of sailing engine-free. In fact, looking back over our 45 years of voyaging, I doubt we would have continued so long if we'd had an engine. Reason - being without always kept us feeling adventuresome - Larry used to say it added Cheap Thrills!

I believe they also got towed through the Kiel Canal, and rented an outboard for the Panama Canal.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

1. If this is true, then why do so many advocate learning how to sail by starting with a dingy? Perhaps it's because the skills learned transfer directly over to "cruising" boats.

Many of the skills transfer, some are specific to one or another.


Righting dinghies that have capsized is an important skill, not difficult to learn. It is both unnecessary and unwise to practice it on a cruising boat.


Sailing dinghies to the dock is also an important skill ....

If you knew how to fly, then you'd know that landing a 747 isn't any different than landing a Cessna 152. It's bigger and more complex, but the exact same principles apply. You don't want to crash so you do it slowly, carefully, by the numbers and following the checklist, and at the slowest speed the aircraft can safely maneuver without stalling while giving yourself as much lead time as you can to abort and go around.

There are many experienced pilots who post on CF, and I think most would agree that you're once again out of your depth.


A Cessna 152 is ordinarily landed using a visual approach. Approach angle and speed are not critical, and a safe landing can be accomplished at a wide variety of speeds (though not just above stall speed as you suggest; the 152 has a high enough wing that there is little or no ground effect and the wing will stall upon flaring when reaching the runway, resulting an acceleration-driven stall and unacceptably high gear loads). Excessive speed can be burned off readily just by flying down the runway. You manage the engine by controlling mixture, carb heat, and throttle. You manage the airframe with primary flight controls and flaps. There is little inertia to prevent yaw and the pilot sits close to the center of the yaw axis.


A 747 is ordinarily landed using a precision instrument approach. It is important to control approach angle and speed because the spool-up time of the engines -- many seconds -- does not allow time to compensate for an overly short approach. And, the usual need to utilize a good deal of the runway does not allow distance to compensate for an overly hot approach.


On a 747, the pilot sits quite a ways forward of both the main landing gear and the yaw axis of the aircraft. Unlike the 152, it is necessary to laterally compensate by flying somewhat upwind of the runway so that the gear are on the centerline even though the cockpit is (possibly) well upwind of the edge of the runway until entering a slip for landing. In like fashion, the moment of inertia on the yaw axis is great enough that this maneuver must be performed far in advance of landing rather than merely "kicking out the yaw" at the last minute as is common on a 152.


The cockpit workload, the speed at which everything happens, and the opportunities for correction are all far more demanding.


Like sailing a large vessel into a slip, the idea of landing a 747 makes an enjoyable fantasy, one that many less experienced pilots entertain.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by fourlyons

I don't get the heated response from many people on this subject. We see it dependably whenever Sean, the engineless circumnavigator on this forum, encourages engineless sailing.

Sean has a sculling oar and uses it when conditions require.

[Jammer]

The best and safest way to sail a large boat into a slip is on a light and steady beam reach with the motor idling in neutral.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by Fullbore

Sorry to be such a geek, but

F = mA (mass times acceleration equals force)

mV = momentum.

No, it's me who should be sorry for being such a toolshed

[fourlyons]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

I haven't read the Pardey's books, but Lin did post this on SA a couple of years ago ...

I believe they also got towed through the Kiel Canal, and rented an outboard for the Panama Canal.

Thanks Kelkara, having met and chatted with both twice over the years that all sounds right; they were/are pretty unique.