What happened to the "small" "Affordable" cruisers?

[krowe]

The issue for my husband and I is having enough storage space for all the stuff we want to bring with us: primarily scuba gear, scuba compressor, camera gear (I'm a photographer), paddle boards, and wanting space for a watermaker, and having enough storage for foodstuffs. We currently have a Pearson 35, but it is our lake boat. We would never consider circumnavigating on it. Our boat was built in 1977 though, and I know more modern boats are laid out a lot better.

[rasher]

Robert Perry is right now designing a 37' "affordable" family cruiser and sharing the progress on his Facebook Fan Club. Check it out, the boat looks great!

[Bugoutboat]

I think it has more to do with couples cruising and families cruising and how this population has grown. When I was looking for a new boat for my wife and I I spent hundreds of dollars on books that talked about Water boats">blue water boats. When I finally moved to where I could begin looking at them in person, I found many to be the perfect boat. But my wife couldn’t stand any of them. I took a chance and looked at an IRWIN 42 and was the first time my wife said maybe. What was the difference. Ted Irwin had to endure his wife and daughters scrutiny and because he couldn’t escape it he had to fix the boat designs. For me though looking at it with my blue water eyes, it scared the crap out of me. Ted sold a lot of boats where the other manufactures didn’t . What convinced me to buy the coastal cruiser I have now was a real heart to heart talk with Mark Weatherferd. At the time he was selling boats for Rouge Waves in Annapolis. I complained that a fella has a huge problem getting his gal to want to spend much time on a blue water boat. He introduced me to coastal cruisers and had a real heart tto heart with me on what I felt was realistic for our cruising ambitions. We reall don’t think we will ever be world cruisers but will do lots of miles going to common destinations. He helped me realize that her comfort and my comfort with the boat was essential and today we couldn’t be happier. Friend, I believe a lot of why the small cruising boat is experiencing is what I went through. My wife wanted space, didn’t want to feel like camping, and wanted the boat to be a home for me, my family and any visitors to our boat home. I think this is at the core to your question and the heart of why Catamarans are doing so well. They address all of these in one vessel. As a sailor and engineer though my greatest concern is lack of construction regulations for boats. Many people pay huge amounts of money for junk built boats and its a life safety issue for entire families. The yacht building industry need better regulation resulting in better quality and safer operating vessels.

[Capdave360]

Originally Posted by Little Otter

Adelie, building a boat and sailing her around the world has always been a dream of mine. We haven't had kids yet, and I promised my wife I would wait until they were in college before I left on my adventure. It will be many years still until I can go see the world and I plan to use that time to sail her on the local lake and coastal cruising, building my confidence and trust with whatever boat I choose.

OK - I admit I haven't read this entire string. But Little Otter, honestly this makes no sense. You are AT LEAST 19 YEARS from leaving on a round the world adventure, and you want to choose and build that boat right now?!?!? Presumably you have a job, and then you're going to have those kids, so you'll be building that boat in your fast-diminishing spare time - it'll be many years before you do any sailing with her.....

I'd suggest - stick with low-maintenance production boats for a while and actually get some sailing in until you're a little closer to the Big Adventure departure date.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by krowe

The issue for my husband and I is having enough storage space

Storage space is a huge problem. One of the worst design features on my boat is the dinette. Takes up a lot of unused space that could be used for storage.
Seems like designers decided to put kitchen tables on boats instead of the old ones with the folding leafs and opposing bunks.

[capnorv]

My wife and I lived for five years on a Perry designed, Hans Christian 34, and cruised three more. Life was great. We were in our fifties and had all we needed. Then we got two grandchildren to raise. A single quarter berth was quickly outgrown. Enter the 45' condo boat. It wasn't as cozy, but was definitely more practical for four. Now ten years later, I'm retiring. The 45' is fine, even single handing so we'll keep her even though we both long for the coziness of our old 34'. Sometimes it's just the hand you're dealt.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Little Otter

So I was thinking about this the other day. Some of my older sailing friends remember a time when anything over 35' was considered a big boat and between 30' and 35' considered normal for a cruising boat, but 20'-30' boats were regularly cruised. By today's standards these (30'-35') are considered by many to be too small to cruise or cross oceans, and cruising in anything under 30' is considered nuts.

My question is what changed?

We know that boats under 40' are more than capable of circumnavigating (not necessarily comfortably) and that at one point the 26'-36' cruising boat was popular due to the number built. Clearly these boats are seaworthy, Jim Brown cruised his 31' boat "Scrimshaw" for nearly 4 decades, the Pardeys boat was 24', Matt Rutherford did the northwest passage and the horn nonstop in a 27' Albin Vega, countless others have sailed around the world in what is considered today a "Small Boat". Was it just "keeping up with the Jones's" and "I want a bigger boat syndrome" that made everyone want these 40'+ behemoths? Or was there some other more "Scientific" reason behind it?

I'm just curious what everyone thinks. I know the drive towards bigger boats has led to a corresponding increase in price for new boats and thus, a more expensive cost for entry into sailing. I understand wanting a huge boat, but what happened to the "small", capable, AFFORDABLE cruiser that was so popular in the days of yore? Surely a small, capable cruiser would be more profitable to the companies if more people could buy them. and if more people were out sailing wouldn't that be a good thing?

My marina has a large group of 36'+ sailboats. On any one weekend, Maybe I see 5 or 6 head out..
I had a Sabre 28, lots of room and handled very well off shore. I moved to a 37 Ketch, due to family needs and longer trips. Now, it may be back to a smaller day sailer, as the kids are gone.

[RichardPresley]

Refitting a 50-year old Alberg 30. She's bigger than the VW Westphalia camper I lived in, 'cruising' America, my base-camp for backcountry and alpine adventures. She cost me $12k and another $6k to be fully found is what it is looking like. Minimalist by today's standards, focused on the essentials, the journey not the gadgetry.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I wonder why on internet forums people are so interested in what boat others choose?

Keeping up with the Jones.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Phantom Jim

I will state, without any proof or evidence whatever, that our 1981 36 foot Pearson 365 ketch is most likely a stronger boat today than many brand new boats for sale. I also suspect she will be around long after these newer boats are landfill.

I will also state they will not have more serenity than we had either!

God love the Good Old Days!

Same with my 83 Dickerson 37 Ketch and why I keep upgrading her. A proven sailer.. I often get into a up bay race with a similar Pesaon.. always fun burying the rail going against her.

[thataway41]

My take on it: We have known people who have done circumnavigations in 24, 25 and 27 foot sailboats. I had sailed the Baja Coast in a 29 and a 35 foot boat, plus raced the Mexican port races (Cabo, La Paz and Puerto Vallarta)in 45' to 55' boats.

I already had considerable experience, but mostly ocean racing, including several passages up to 2500 miles. We decided that a 38 foot boat would be the ideal size. We built the boat, and set out on a shake down cruise. (Going to be 5 months and include a trip LA to Hawaii, to PNW and back to LA.). The boat was fast, fin keel, good size rig, decent range under power, freezer etc. We got several hundred miles off the coast and were hit with winds up to 75 knots. My wife was incapacitated by something..?? at the time. The auto pilot or wind vane would not handle the boat. I wasn't prepared to go bare poles, use drogues or lay too. I hand steered for about 12 hours at night before I felt I could safely turn back toward the coast.

In view of that experience we decided to work our way up the coast to PNW. Near Point Reyes again my wife had an episode (Turned out to be a cardiac arrhythmia treated with a pacemaker, at age 37). We sailed on another 2 days and my wife said "Buy a bigger boat, with a pilot house, go where its warm, and we can continue".

In view of this wisdom, we spent 4 months in the Sacramento Delta, went back to LA and found that "Bigger boat with a pilot house". It turned out to be a full keel, ketch. Displacement was in the 66,000# area and LWL in the 48' arena. It was easier to sail than the 38 footer, and we rarely had a day's run of less than 160 miles. We had range under power of almost 3000 miles, We had 3 staterooms, so we could have guests (people who crewed with me on racing boats) and have 3 or 4 watch standers rather than 2 on long passages. We had a bad storm (Winds in excess of 65 knots and seas over 40' and breaking) crossing The Atlantic, and the boat handled it well, running off with storm jib, engine ticking over (to give constant flow over the rudder) and 100% autopilot driven (except the 3x a day our Labador Retriever had do do her "business")

This trip started in late 1982, so we arrived at Cabo San Lucas just after the "storm". We talked to most of the people whose boats survived, and many of those whose boats didn't. We helped folks get some of the boats off the beach or strip others. It was my impression that seamanship, being properly anchored, is what determined survival--not boat size. There were plenty of big boats which survived. They had wisely anchored in deeper water and were not caught in the surf. That bigger boat took us over 40,000 miles. We came "home" for a few years and then modified a Cal 46 for further cruising--especially in the PNW another Central America and Caribbean trip. That boat also served us well for 40,000 miles of cruising. We just didn't have as many guests.

Big boats are not that much harder to handle, and they are a heck of a lot more comfortable! You can have crew if you want. Cost: by finding the right boat not that much--in the 1980 era $90,000 for the boat, $25,000 for full outfitting, and lived very well on $1,000 a month.

[Giro]

There is another element involved here. For those of us who enjoy berthing our vessels in marinas, it has become more difficult to acquire slips in the 30 to 40 foot range. Many owners of larger boats have been opting to downsize from 45 to 60 foot boats into the 30 to 40 foot range. Hence, creating extremely long wait time to obtain an appropriate size slip. This is especially true at the more desirably located marinas. Not to mention that a great deal of aging cruising sailors are choosing to abandon the long range cruises and are doing more coastal sailing and even pure day sailing in order to stay on the water. It’s an interesting new dynamic that has come about generated by the older baby boomers.

[Poche]

Originally Posted by Giro

There is another element involved here. For those of us who enjoy berthing our vessels in marinas, it has become more difficult to acquire slips in the 30 to 40 foot range. Many owners of larger boats have been opting to downsize from 45 to 60 foot boats into the 30 to 40 foot range. Hence, creating extremely long wait time to obtain an appropriate size slip. This is especially true at the more desirably located marinas. Not to mention that a great deal of aging cruising sailors are choosing to abandon the long range cruises and are doing more coastal sailing and even pure day sailing in order to stay on the water. It’s an interesting new dynamic that has come about generated by the older baby boomers.

Where are you talking about?

[Alita49DS]

When I had a 26ft boat I remember an older friend telling me "One foot of boat for every year of your age plus... amnesia now sets in.

[Island Time O25]

This Spring, as I wasn't sure if we'll have a season due to Covid-19, I was going over my 36 footer to see what can be done to increase the storage space. It's 40 years old, well built and for a crew of 2 with 2 guests there is plenty of room. But should I get to the cruising stage, hopefully sooner than later, it would need a bit of applied carpentry skills (which I sorely lack) to make every nook and cranny become a storage bin or a locker.

Going through the possibilities I was amazed how much space was either wasted or underused and the boat could really benefit from a bit more thoughtful storage design. I guess it wasn't a priority in 1980 as the 36' was considered then plenty of a boat for a cruising couple. I personally think it is but the missus thinks she will need much more storage than is currently configured.

From the looks of it on this boat the storage can be increased at least by 50% as far as volume is concerned. Not by weight though as there is a lot of empty space at both ends - under the v-birth and near the stern. As well as behind the seat backs at the salon and behind the drawers which have much empty space behind them.

As an aside. When I was selling my 1st boat, 27 footer I was amazed at the amount of personal stuff which I had to dig out before handing the boat to the buyer. The deck was stacked to the boom and the cockpit was full as well. I wasn't even living on the boat, just light weekend use. A liveaboard friend who was helping me was laughing telling me "this is nothing, you only owned her about 4 years, you should see the amount of stuff after 15 years of liveaboard ownership".