What happened to the "small" "Affordable" cruisers?

[Little Otter]

Adelie, building a boat and sailing her around the world has always been a dream of mine. We haven't had kids yet, and I promised my wife I would wait until they were in college before I left on my adventure. It will be many years still until I can go see the world and I plan to use that time to sail her on the local lake and coastal cruising, building my confidence and trust with whatever boat I choose.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Little Otter

Thanks for all the great replies so far guys. I definitely want to hear everyone else's thoughts too. I fully admit that while I didn't start that way, at one point I was one of the "gotta have a bigger boat with all the fancy gadgets" people. But with age and experience (I guess I can say that at 28 lol) has come the realization that even with all the modern amenities, it can be a challenge to safely singlehand anything above about 35' in rough weather, and that even with 2 people you are basically singlehanding a large amount of the time. All this has led me back around to see the practicality, and dare I say romance of smaller boats. I'd rather actually go cruising than just dream about cruising, and as such I am now looking for a 30'-36' boat or maybe even building one, I just want to go on adventures and get to go sailing while i'm at it.

There are plenty, PLENTY, of good 30'-36' boats around, and CHEAP. You'll have no trouble finding one if you're willing to do some R&R (which is not rest and relaxation).

[Little Otter]

I appreciate the invitation Kelkara. I'm currently looking at the Horstman 31 design, I like the size and the layout. It seems big on the inside but its a very manageable size and will be just as at home doing lake and coastal work as bluewater cruising.

[IslandInfedel]

Same reason you see less hunting charters, fewer cabins, sports cars are larger, as are the people.

Fewer real enthusiasts and comfort is critical, people don’t want to feel like they ever leave “home”

[Little Otter]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

Same reason you see less hunting charters, fewer cabins, sports cars are larger, as are the people.

Fewer real enthusiasts and comfort is critical, people don’t want to feel like they ever leave “home”

See to me that is incomprehensible. What's the point of living if you never go off the beaten path and get to feel some adrenaline? and you can't do that from the comfort of your couch.

[Phantom Jim]

There are a lot of these 30 to 36 foot Good Old Boats around. They will be around for a long time, too. They are reasonable to buy as well. You will have to do some updating of the equipment, perhaps. Don't spend too much time getting her ready but get out there and learn what you do want on your boat. The magazines will try to tell you what you will need and want but resist this first impulse.

Eric and Susan Hiscock crossed the Atlantic with less than 5 gallons of petrol (gasoline). The Pardeys had no motor.

Find a way to stay cool in the evenings and nights and all will be well.

A quiet anchorage is a wonderful thing.

[Little Otter]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Go to a boat show. They get bigger every year. The charter trade is a big factor. You can't charter a small boat.

I find I have less and less interest in looking at the boats as a result.

Why go sailing, when I can have a virtual experience in the comfort of my living room? There are fewer boats on the water... which is OK with me.

Yeah, I just can't get into a lot of the new, big boats. They look ok, but they seem more designed for sipping sundowners at the dock than actually sailing, and that just doesn't appeal much to me.

[s/v Jedi]

In the old days, people sailed these boats for entertainment in weekends and vacations, or took the big step and sailed a Transatlantic circuit or even circumnavigated etc. but they did not live aboard permanently like we do. They need laundry service, either supermarkets nearby or eat cold beans straight from cans, dock side faucets for water, etc.

There are people who like living like primitive camping but most people will prefer a washing machine, a galley that can produce real meals with ingredients from fridges and freezers as well as from cans and so on

[gansett]

I'm starting to see that 5 foot-itis that has infected the sailing community. Back when I was trailer-sailing 22 to 26 foot boats, owning a 30 footer meant I had arrived. And when I finally bought a 30 footer it was all I needed. We recently bought a 31 foot boat and still thought it was the end-all. But the more I talk to fellow sailors at the marina it seems that "30 is the new 25", and that the minimum size for a serious sailor these days is a 35-36 footer. Even though those "serious sailors" are just weekending on the bay or cruising out to the coastal islands for a week.

To me, 30 feet is still my ideal boat. Small enough for ease of sailhandling, and manhandling at the dock, but large enough for the 2 of us to do the coastal cruising we envision, or to entertain family and friends.
My uncle used to say a boat should be able to drink 6, eat 4, and sleep 2, and it seems 30 feet is still enough boat for all that.

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by Little Otter

My question is what changed?

Everything is getting bigger in life - homes, cars, food portions, appliances, and even people’s sizes - why not boats? How else will you fit a 40” TV, a 4 burner stove and oven, a full size fridge and a washer and a dryer?

Honestly, I think our 34 footer is too big for us but wanted something bigger for distance cruising after sailing a 23 footer for years. Bigger boat also comes with bigger problems and I miss the simplicity of a 23 footer, I hate to say it but the actual sailing time was more with that than our current boat. I am not complaining too much as having a head on the boat is huge for the kids and being able to make and drink tea while underway is golden.

[Westcliffe01]

How many actually remember what boating was like back in the 80's and 90's, when the majority of 27-36' boats were being built that today are on the market ?


Remember having no GPS ? Or a GPS that gave you only Longitude and Lattitude data. Whats a moving map ???? Hardly any solar power since PV was hellishly expensive. Usually the solar panel was so that you had a way to re-charge the starting battery if you managed to run it flat operating something you shouldnt have all night... No night vision devices to help you if trying to navigate a crowded anchorage or tricky inlet after dark....



Pretty much no refrigeration or AC of any description besides the ice box. Forget about cooling off at night in the tropics unless you can go over the side if the waters cooler...


I think the reason people are moving up in size is simply because of the number of used boats of longer length that have depreciated. If everyone had to pay $230K or more for a bigger boat, they would still be in smaller boats. Especially DIY'ers can buy an older boat and modernize it with AC, solar power, proper DC refrigeration. There is a limit because you are not that likely to get the money back when selling. But a bigger boat is almost without a doubt going to be more comfortable underway and at anchor. Rigging, sails, winches, docking etc are going to cost you on the bigger boats. Plenty of systems are probably ripe to be torn out and rebuilt given the passage of time, unless the boat was a total dock queen...

[Fore and Aft]

Little Otter it would be great to see more smaller designs out there. Newer designs like this link below are just so sexy and have almost as much room as those bigger older yacht designs. I have a client who actually stepped down in yacht size after going onboard a modern yacht design and seeing how much room there is.
Cheers
RM890+ - RM Yachts
http://www.rm-yachts.com/en/exclusiv...-the-new-rm890

[Westcliffe01]

It looks like something that would pound like hell in a chop with so much flat bottom.....

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Little Otter it would be great to see more smaller designs out there. Newer designs like this link below are just so sexy and have almost as much room as those bigger older yacht designs. I have a client who actually stepped down in yacht size after going onboard a modern yacht design and seeing how much room there is.
Cheers
RM890+ - RM Yachts
Exclusive : photos of the interior of the new RM890+ - RM Yachts

[Pizzazz]

It has to do with the total cost of ownership. You can find good boats, well maintained and well equipped at any length above 30’ (below that headroom becomes an issue). Low thirties is good for 1-2 people, but larger is just more convenient. Now, I’m terms of cost of ownership, you can get a small boat in great condition for $20-25K, put in another $10K and you have a boat that can go anywhere. However, most of the time you stay in the marina, that is $10K/year. Add another $5K for maintenance, that is $15k/year. If you will be spending that much money, you might as well get a $150k boat, finance it at 6%, that is only $10k per year additional. It just does not make sense to spend $15k/year on a $25k boat. Hence, most people who go into boating get bigger boats. Because they can.

[Fore and Aft]

Westcliffe01 plenty of flat bottomed OVNI's have sailed around the world, the review below does mention some slamming. Still if you are doing 9.4 knots in a 30 footer you can't complain to much!
Just look at the RM890 sail, looks good to me......
https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/yach...0-review-33152
Cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyKexp9zoJA