WHAT IS A GOOD GENERATOR ??

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Dockhead,

I agree with most of what you said and I think you are approaching it the right way. The only issue for me is cost (specifically, the opportunity cost of a diesel generator install vs. other things we spend money on).

On a smaller boat (<35 ft), the diesel generator engine is similar to the main propulsion engine (typically a 2-3 cyl. yanmar or equivalent). There is just no point in carrying two similarly sized engines, one for propulsion, another for generation. I typically use my propulsion engine for power generation and if I have to replace it, it can be done for $2-3K which is cheaper than most diesel generators. Then the efficiency comes into play. If you are marina hopping, it is no problem. But if you are cruising, using diesel for heat, eventually you run out of fuel. It just adds up. So, we do need a smaller generator for our boats and currently, the Honda has the sweet spot. On larger boats (>40 ft), the diesel generator becomes a lot more reasonable.

Pizzazz

That makes sense.

Another strategy which might make a lot of sense on a small boat would be a very large second alternator charging a LiFePo bank. Leave it switched off normally, but charge the LiFePo bank at anchor with a short run of the main engine, which might be reasonably loaded if it's small. Could be very, very efficient, and pretty cheap, too.

[Typhoon]

I did this . Works great, power is never an issue . Installed an Eco-Tech alternator on the backside of a X Kohler generator. I was lucky enough to find one that had a bad power end but the Yanmar only had 100 hrs on it . Direct coupled the alternator to the crank shaft. Alternator makes real power at 1800 RPM, no belts , no belt dust or belt maintenance . When you get up to this kind of power from an alternator the belts are always an issue . The Eco- Tech alternator is just about the only alternator I could find that would take the load the LifePo4 bank would put on it .

I have not had any issues with this setup in 3 years of steady use . We never use shore power except for the occasional electric space heater.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVvB...4BzzTGJM3YJSTw

Regards John

[john61ct]

Great minds think alike! Exactly what I have in mind

Fulfills all Dockhead's points (also great post!)

1. Reliable, long lasting, easy and cheap to repair.
2. Quiet.
3. Inexpensive to acquire and install.
4. Convenient to operate.

Coldeh, what size is the engine vs amps output of that alt? And how much more output do you think it could handle?

Why wouldn't the large-frame Delco-Remy or Leece-Nevilles work? Apparently no problems pumping out 80% of rated amps all day or night if needed, properly cooled of course, routinely available in 200+A sizes.


You're right, getting rid of belts would be great long as the space allows. If the coupling goes south in third-world conditions, would it be harder to get fixed?

I really want something a blacksmith with foot-pumped bellows could work on 8-)

wrt #3, determining the minimum required HP motor to drive a specific truck alt and shopping for good-used should bring initial cost way down and save some weight.

Longevity of the motor isn't much of an issue if runtime's on the order of single digit hours per week.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

If you are thinking about topping off your batteries only, use solar panels.

Conditions are not always conducive, some boats don't have that much room or not so pretty with many panels.

Even without AC comfort mod cons, there may be largish critical DC loads like windlass, big freezers, watermaking. Plus ventilation, nav computers, music & movies can be greedy if run many hours

With a lead bank, you need the all-day long tail of solar to get to Full, but LFP can just run the genny 3-4 hours a week overall to take care of all your power.

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Great minds think alike! Exactly what I have in mind

Fulfills all Dockhead's points (also great post!)

1. Reliable, long lasting, easy and cheap to repair.
2. Quiet.
3. Inexpensive to acquire and install.
4. Convenient to operate.

Coldeh, what size is the engine vs amps output of that alt? And how much more output do you think it could handle?

Why wouldn't the large-frame Delco-Remy or Leece-Nevilles work? Apparently no problems pumping out 80% of rated amps all day or night if needed, properly cooled of course, routinely available in 200+A sizes.


You're right, getting rid of belts would be great long as the space allows. If the coupling goes south in third-world conditions, would it be harder to get fixed?

I really want something a blacksmith with foot-pumped bellows could work on 8-)

wrt #3, determining the minimum required HP motor to drive a specific truck alt and shopping for good-used should bring initial cost way down and save some weight.

Longevity of the motor isn't much of an issue if runtime's on the order of single digit hours per week.

Nothing on the market puts out power at low RPM at operating temperatures then a Eco-Tech .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inRZdSzFMAw

The LoveJoy connection (coupler) is rated for 45 HP , I carry a spare rubber spider , but it should last 20 years or more in this application.

All the specs you need here.

http://www.ecotechalternators.com/wp...t-14V.pdf_.pdf

If we run ours 2 hrs every second day , thats 365 hrs a year , in ten years it would be 3650 hrs on the generator , thats nothing for this little 15 HP Yanmar. In fact we have a hard time putting a hundred hrs a year on this setup. I actually just turned over 200hrs on the unit in 3 years .

I am not affiliated with Eco-Tech in any way , just a fan of there products.

Regards John.

[Typhoon]

These Eco-Tech alternators are well suited to LifePo4 batterie banks but not so much for lead banks , you have to use them with there internal regulators. they are full on or full off , nothing in between .

This is due to there proprietary unique design . You can set the voltage turn off set point , I actually have a small dial that I can adjust that with. They custom built the regulator for me to accommodate the LifePo4 bank .

These people are brilliant and easy to work with. The designer picks up the phone !

Regards John

[john61ct]

how much more amps output do you think the 15HP could handle? Or do you think it is max'd out?

> Why wouldn't the large-frame Delco-Remy or Leece-Nevilles work? Apparently no problems pumping out 80% of rated amps all day or night if needed, properly cooled of course, routinely available in 200+A sizes.

I'm thinking more easily / cheaply serviced in future, maybe primitive conditions

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by john61ct

how much more amps output do you think the 15HP could handle? Or do you think it is max'd out?

> Why wouldn't the large-frame Delco-Remy or Leece-Nevilles work? Apparently no problems pumping out 80% of rated amps all day or night if needed, properly cooled of course, routinely available in 200+A sizes.

I'm thinking more easily / cheaply serviced in future, maybe primitive conditions

Look at the power curves of the alternators you mentioned , make sure you look at them hot , and the RPM . At 1800 RPM hot , I have not been able to find an alternator that put out more power the the Eco-Tech. Correct me if I'm wrong .

I figure 9 hp when cold and just under 7 hp when hot is what the alternator is taking to turn at 1800 RPM . I saved 3 HP to turn the water maker pump. With the pump running and the alternator turning Im at about 80% of what the engine is capable of doing , thats Ideal .

Regards John.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ColdEh Marine

Look at the power curves of the alternators you mentioned , make sure you look at them hot , and the RPM . At 1800 RPM hot , I have not been able to find an alternator that put out more power the the Eco-Tech. Correct me if I'm wrong .

I figure 9 hp when cold and just under 7 hp when hot is what the alternator is taking to turn at 1800 RPM . I saved 3 HP to turn the water maker pump. With the pump running and the alternator turning Im at about 80% of what the engine is capable of doing , thats Ideal .

Regards John.

That's a very beautiful installation Kudos to you . I have the same Yanmar engine in my Kohler generator and can vouch for its being very lovely -- very quiet, very smooth, trouble free. I have a few thousand hours on mine by now in 9 years of use.

I have long drooled over those Eco Tech alternators.

Only question is how easy they will be to repair in remote places. They are a bit large and a bit expensive for carrying an entire spare, as you could with a Leece Neville etc. I guess you could carry a complete spares kit and learn to work on it yourself.

For regulation of the Eco Tech to use with lead acid batteries -- I would think you could use something like the Sterling Alternator-to-Battery Charger, which does not really regulate the alternator.

But I would be using LiFePo batteries so that wouldn't be a problem for me.

[a64pilot]

My 7 HP 3.5 KW Nex Gen will easily run 185 amps of battery charging at 14.3 V so I’m sure it could do 200 and that is with conversion losses of converting AC to DC of course.
So 15 HP should be good for 400 amps?

[Typhoon]

Hey Dockhead , Thanks

Actually, I think the prices have dropped since I got mine , $1,495.00 for one now . A Balmar 200 amp alternator is $1480 at Deffender , plus a regulator . When you get a regulator they are up to $2000 and they don't come close to the Eco-Tech in performance .

Balmar AT Series Marine Alternator - 200 Amp - 12VDC

As for longevity , this is a post I found by someone .

"
Six years ago I chose an Eco-Tech Alternator for continuous use in a hydropower application both because of its high power output at low RPM, and also because it had the best efficiency on the market. Fifty thousand hours later, (and 75,000 kWh) the Eco-Tech delivers reliable and efficient power. Today I ordered bearings and brushes for the next eight years!

MattAugust 2013, Bonners Ferry, Idaho"

Mind you, this post was from there site , as well as my testimonial .

I will carry a few spare parts for mine when I head off , but so far it has been trouble free.

Regards John.

[john61ct]

OK I'm sold on the Eco-Tech alternator if I can save my pennies and / or shop smart.

I see some sellers say "for diesel engines only".

Is that because the medium (10HP range) benzine / gasoline motors just don't have the necessary torque?

I'm also looking at clarification on this

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If your curious, horsepower and torque are actually the same thing, just quoted differently. I know we have all been taught that there are high torque low RPM engines and high horsepower high RPM motors, but that is incorrect.

The second page of the Eco-Tech has an interesting HP vs torque graph.

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by john61ct

OK I'm sold on the Eco-Tech alternator if I can save my pennies and / or shop smart.

I see some sellers say "for diesel engines only".

Is that because the medium (10HP range) benzine / gasoline motors just don't have the necessary torque?

I'm also looking at clarification on this


The second page of the Eco-Tech has an interesting HP vs torque graph.

You can't go wrong with the Eco-tech . I'm sure you can use them on either diesel or gas engines .

They have a feature called soft start , if you listen and watch on my video you can see and hear the alternator power up after I have started the Yanmar .

If you have any questions , you can just give them a call , they are a very helpful bunch.

Regards John

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I'm also looking at clarification on this


.

Look at Missourisailors post, it explains it.
As I understand it torque is a force applied, but no work done. You can put 100 ftlbs of tq on a bolt but if it doesn’t move you have done no work.
Horsepower is torque and distance a weight is moved, or how much work was done.
Now this explanation is probably wrong as is just a mechanics understanding of math, but it ought to be close.
So yes some engines develop good power down low and some take high RPM to make the same power, but the power is of course the same.

Oh, and we all know a 200 amp small frame alternator is only 200 amps for a very short time, if not seriously derated trying to run them at high power burns them up.

[Typhoon]

Just to follow up.

If you install one of these high output alternators , make sure you get big big wire for them. I use 4/0 wire , and it still gets slightly warm . Also you need really good lugs and crimps to get all that power where you want it to go.

Regards John.