What makes Morris yachts so expensive?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I'd say stick built is better, but not necessarily from a "day 1" functional aspect. It's more from a longevity perspective. The interior won't necessarily work better, but a stick built interior is generally easier to make changes to over time, and easier to repair damage. As well as providing more ability to take things apart for access to hidden areas of the hull, etc. So while the interior itself may not necessarily be any better, the stick built boat will potentially have a longer practical lifespan.

Vast vast majority of conventional production boats will not have interior changes

Equally prefabricated furniture can be removed actually often easier then stick built.

Hence little practical advantage. There is no evidence stick built boats last longer.

I agree, rudder or keel failure is typically a design problem, not a construction problem. The better boats may take more abuse in those respects, but unless there's a glaring issue with how the boat is constructed, any boat used within its design limits should be fine in those respects.

No most rudder and keels failures relate to construction issues ( bad factory work , bad repairs , mods etc. ) the design as used on thousands of sibling boats is well proven and good enough.

Certain construction methods do have downsides. Glued in structural grids with a keel bolted right to the hull bottom (no stub) have 2 big flaws in my mind: the lack of a proper bilge, and they're hard to repair properly if damaged. If you whack the keel on something hard enough to do damage, a fiberglass keel stub with glassed in stringers in the hull can be repaired, even if an area has to be rebuilt entirely. With a glassed in grid and the keel bolted right to the hull, it's harder to make a repair that fits well with the original construction method and harder to be sure everything is really repaired back to 100%.

The evidence is modern boats are extremely dry below so big bilges are not needed mine have dust in them. That’s all

High tech bonded subframes are strong and safe.

Yes they require professional repair. But modern yards are well able to fix such boats. They do it all the time. Diy types might find it more difficult but who cares.

I was speaking to a glass fibre repair specialist and a boat surveyor last night. Both were entirely comfortable a bonded structural grid boat could be repaired to “ as new “ standard. .

The next generation of boats will be almost “ no DIY repair please. “ construction.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Agree there’s definitely a happy medium where really high end boats have an excess of handcrafting that adds tons of cost.

But, I have to say the interior of my 35 year old boat is still perfect- no chipped veneer, creaky floors, loosening hinges, doors that don’t latch. And all bulkheads lockers, seats, shelves, etc are fully glassed into hull- so structurally I believe my boat will last indefinitely. And no deck leaks as port lights and hatches, genoa track are all well attached and bonded with higher quality techniques.

Having chartered and spent time on the current generation of mass production boats I’d have to say there’s a bit of erring on side of cheapness. I have ikea furniture at home but not in “high wear” item, and I expect it to last 1 decade if lucky.

My 2004 Bavaria had no chips , no veneer issues ( all trim is solid wood anyway ) no deck Leaks etc. there’s no evidence as grp boats get older that pre fabricated interiors fall apart.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Diy types might find it more difficult but who cares.
“ no DIY repair please. “ construction.

"But who cares", "No DIY".
Those are pretty "nose in the air" elitest attitudes.
Kind of like "Let them eat cake", and "If you have to ask you can't afford it".
As for interiors, whilst opinions outnumber respondents, you can bet that a significant percentage of boat owners will always reject the stark/sterile/Ikea interiors in favor of the "Country cabin/Mountain lodge" interior.
It's the "Italian shoes/pencil mustache/Sazerac" vs "Topsiders/beard/beer".

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

"But who cares", "No DIY".

Those are pretty "nose in the air" elitest attitudes.

Kind of like "Let them eat cake", and "If you have to ask you can't afford it".

As for interiors, whilst opinions outnumber respondents, you can bet that a significant percentage of boat owners will always reject the stark/sterile/Ikea interiors in favor of the "Country cabin/Mountain lodge" interior.

It's the "Italian shoes/pencil mustache/Sazerac" vs "Topsiders/beard/beer".

Not elitist just informed.

The trend ,both environmental laws , professional practices , professional tools , materials , and knowledge and adherence to both legal boat building standards and access to manufacturers training along with increasingly specialised building processes ( closed resin infusion , VOC control, vacuum bagging ) etc, is all pointing to the end of amateur “ DIY” repairs. Here in my yard there exist highly skilled GRP repair specialists with factory /material supplier training , expensive tooling and most important , knowledge to effect high qualified certified repairs.

Hence the day is fast approaching when such repair work will be mandated to these people by surveyors , insurers and boat manufacturers and will not be within the remit of amateurs. Furthermore chemical directives like REACH , will make accessing suitable materials increasingly difficult if not impossible for “ amateurs “

As for interiors. All modern yachts built in massive numbers by the major builders and increasing high end like HR are built in light pastels and light wood.

You think a modern contemporary couple in a high end house with extremely contemporary interior furnishings , which eschew dark traditional woods and favour clean laminates , pastels , and modern fixtures and fittings will buy some “ dark teak coffin “ of a boat , thats nonsense or you clearly have not met a boat buyer in the last 20 years.

IKEA make exceptionally good kitchens by the way, often assembled by professionals and carrying a 25 year guarantee. Long lasting , modern contemporary units. High end hardware ( Blum and Grasse ) and innovative design features. a boat would do well to emulate these values

There’s a reason all these handmade « long keel “ teak coffin builders have gone out of business , NO ONE wants their products.

[RossD]

I have some growing on my property

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by RossD

I have some growing on my property

Your growing a boat. That’s interesting.

[Bowdrie]

Yeah, I know.
The light, airy, panoramic "windows", and even the designs themselves, with all of the "pastels" are at the base level a result of the "feminization" of yachts.
Mores the pity.
The "Callous Sophisticates" always ruin everything.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Yeah, I know.

The light, airy, panoramic "windows", and even the designs themselves, with all of the "pastels" are at the base level a result of the "feminization" of yachts.

Mores the pity.

The "Callous Sophisticates" always ruin everything.

Men buy houses like women. Men want modern contemporary designs as you see these days in men orientated cars and mens clothes.

People want to see the scenery they sailing in , they want light bright airy interiors with all the comforts of their modern homes. Modern boat materials and engineering provide the ability to have larger windows. Hence we have them.

Hence the modern yacht has evolved to suit those customers. Long may it continue because otherwise no one will buy teak coffins and we’ll have no boats to buy at all.

[pcmm]

Isn't this all a bit like complaining why a Mercedes costs more than a Dodge?

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

no one will buy teak coffins and we’ll have no boats to buy at all.

You continually and endlessly harp about "Teak coffins", it's way past time to give it a break.
Those days pretty much went away decades ago with the demise of the "Tiawan Teak" boats.
There is a vast "middle ground" as exemplified by many builders that are still in business.
There are still good interiors that don't look like a "New York penthouse" or a "Bring the outside in" like a Frank Lloyd Wright house.
In the old days we called them a "Herreshoff interior".
Light, but still with a warmth, easy on the eyes, restful if you will.
Cherry, Ash, Maple, Sapale, Miranti, Cedar, yes, and even some Teak or Mahogany, anything but soulless plasticky plastic.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

You continually and endlessly harp about "Teak coffins", it's way past time to give it a break.
Those days pretty much went away decades ago with the demise of the "Tiawan Teak" boats.
There is a vast "middle ground" as exemplified by many builders that are still in business.
There are still good interiors that don't look like a "New York penthouse" or a "Bring the outside in" like a Frank Lloyd Wright house.
In the old days we called them a "Herreshoff interior".
Light, but still with a warmth, easy on the eyes, restful if you will.
Cherry, Ash, Maple, Sapale, Miranti, Cedar, yes, and even some Teak or Mahogany, anything but soulless plasticky plastic.

He's only defending his Bavaria..
Personally I find this 27ft interior quite pleasant.. even if it is from 1974..

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Isn't this all a bit like complaining why a Mercedes costs more than a Dodge?

It's just branding, don'tcha know?

[jordanbigel]

Quote:
Isn't this all a bit like complaining why a Mercedes costs more than a Dodge?

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

It's just branding, don'tcha know?

You think the main difference between a Benz and a Dodge is the marketing? Have you ever driven one? Shrug.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

You continually and endlessly harp about "Teak coffins", it's way past time to give it a break.

Those days pretty much went away decades ago with the demise of the "Tiawan Teak" boats.

There is a vast "middle ground" as exemplified by many builders that are still in business.

There are still good interiors that don't look like a "New York penthouse" or a "Bring the outside in" like a Frank Lloyd Wright house.

In the old days we called them a "Herreshoff interior".

Light, but still with a warmth, easy on the eyes, restful if you will.

Cherry, Ash, Maple, Sapale, Miranti, Cedar, yes, and even some Teak or Mahogany, anything but soulless plasticky plastic.

Almost all contemporary modern boats use wood trim to a greater or lesser extent.

I use the “ teakcoffin “ moniker to illustrate old boat design interior with acres of dark varnished wood, which I quite like myself actually, but it’s not the modern boat builder is buying

So step into a modern Beneteau , Jeanneau , Hanse , and Halberg Rassy , there’s plenty of wood. But these days you see more use of light coloured fabric trim , solid colours laminated etc.

If you have a high end modern 32mm kitchen at home and contemporary furniture in your sitting room, your yacht is going to more then likely reflect that design aesthetic.

My 2004 Bav36 is more “ old style “ and as I say I like darker wood.

In my case all trim in solid mahogany . I just sanded and revarnished a door trim

But the successor model 2008 36 , is an example of the trend. Lighter trim, veneered edges and simpler woodworking. ( flat as opposed to curves doors etc )

I have been on 5 newer 40 foot pluses this week , and that trend has accelerated , bigger saloon windows , light woods Ash etc. more high quality laminates , modern looking kitchens with built in microwaves etc.

Hence whatever ones says this is where medium and high end boat builders are at these days and as I said no more is building , dark wood caverns of boats these days.

“by many builders that are still in business.

There are still good interiors that don't look like a "New York penthouse" or a "Bring the outside in" like a Frank Lloyd Wright house.

In the old days we called them a "Herreshoff interior".

None , on the high end oyster , discovery , malo, amel , contest , etc is building “ herrrshoff” it’s seen as old fashioned and dated.

Seriously walk around a high end modern house or apartment. This will inform you as to where interior of boats is heading.

[Sailor Sailor]

De gustibus non est disputandum