What makes Morris yachts so expensive?

[rslifkin]

Color and style doesn't necessarily have to dictate how that interior is built, so style and construction are at least mostly independent. I do agree that interiors with tons of wood often feel dated (not necessarily a bad thing to me, but not as attractive to some buyers). But a lot of builders don't seem to do a great job of finding materials, finishes, etc. to use in a modern interior, which leaves the whole thing often looking or feeling like you're in a cheap plastic box.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by jordanbigel

You think the main difference between a Benz and a Dodge is the marketing? Have you ever driven one? Shrug.

Was sarcasm, don'tcha know?


And yeah.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

IKEA make exceptionally good kitchens by the way, often assembled by professionals and carrying a 25 year guarantee. Long lasting , modern contemporary units. High end hardware ( Blum and Grasse ) and innovative design features. a boat would do well to emulate these values

Ikea in Europe may have a different reputation than in North America, but here "Ikea" is synonymous with "cheap college affordability" so its not generally considered good to have "Ikea-like" anything.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Ikea in Europe may have a different reputation than in North America, but here "Ikea" is synonymous with "cheap college affordability" so its not generally considered good to have "Ikea-like" anything.

High end American interior design largely takes its design cues from europe anyway.

It’s matters not what you consider ikea.

What IKEA do is follow many high end design trends even if they do less expensively

Walk into a high high end kitchen shop here it’s all high end laminates high end hardware and pastels trends , typically modern kitchens will be high gloss laminates , not dark woods. Greys , off whites etc, some times you’ll see aspects of primary colours. The design aesthetic is smooth and clean , we’re talking €20k-50k kitchens here. All custom built

Similarly with furniture the trend is light woods , laminates , clean design , a trend towards faux leather etc.

When these people go boat shopping that’s what’s they want.

That why all modern boat builders including oysters , HR , as well as Benny , Jeanneau , Bav etc build their interiors like a modern apartment. Buyers get what buyers want.

Clearly buyers in the main, sure there’s a few outliers , dont want dark expanses of wood. Don’t want traditional like Herresshoff etc the don’t want their grandfathers design aesthetic.

This was posted by one

“As for interiors, whilst opinions outnumber respondents, you can bet that a significant percentage of boat owners will always reject the stark/sterile/Ikea interiors in favor of the "Country cabin/Mountain lodge" interior.

It's the "Italian shoes/pencil mustache/Sazerac" vs "Topsiders/beard/beer"”

Clearly actually based on the huge percentage of mainstream yachts being built thd exact converse of the statement above is true.

Buyers actually want that Italian shoe interior and clearly prefer the clean modern design approach. Since the US is not a sailing nation and has a small number of boats, it’s more constructive to look at large mainstream producers of sailboats and their customer base.

[letsgetsailing3]

Are you still trying to advocate mass-builds over custom ones?

In spite of your argument, there is generally a difference. It's not JUST branding.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Are you still trying to advocate mass-builds over custom ones?

In spite of your argument, there is generally a difference. It's not JUST branding.

No I appreciate a finely crafted item as well as anyone.

What I saying is it’s not mainstream tastes it’s not common it’s a small niche market.

If you’ve been on a modern custom ovni or custom van de stadt or trintella. It’s already modern laminate light timbers and laminates etc.

A custom boat however one decides where the line is “ may “ be well built. But handcrafted furniture is no guarantee of a good boat.

My deck openings are cut by robot. No human can come near that level of precision.

Hence a finely crafted vessel may look stunning to certain eyes. But that in itself is no guarantee of a “ good “ boat however you define “ good”

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Are you still trying to advocate mass-builds over custom ones?

In spite of your argument, there is generally a difference. It's not JUST branding.

Branding plays a significant part

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

My deck openings are cut by robot. No human can come near that level of precision.

Hence a finely crafted vessel may look stunning to certain eyes. But that in itself is no guarantee of a “ good “ boat however you define “ good”

The Robot cut deck openings is not the mark of quality. Yes the intended part will fit better in the opening but its still the installer that makes or breaks it. Bavaria is still considered a Niche brand (here in North America). They do/did some interesting things (I like the heavy use of robotics for precision milling, etc.) Pretty rare to see one. The North American market is definitely different than the European market. Even brand new production boats have a more traditional interior than the new Bene's or Jeanneau's (thankfully!!) The Fact that Morris Yachts is still around and building small numbers of boats just means that those who can afford them and like the asthetic are still speaking with their cheque books to those builders!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pcmm

The Robot cut deck openings is not the mark of quality. Yes the intended part will fit better in the opening but its still the installer that makes or breaks it. Bavaria is still considered a Niche brand (here in North America). They do/did some interesting things (I like the heavy use of robotics for precision milling, etc.) Pretty rare to see one. The North American market is definitely different than the European market. Even brand new production boats have a more traditional interior than the new Bene's or Jeanneau's (thankfully!!) The Fact that Morris Yachts is still around and building small numbers of boats just means that those who can afford them and like the asthetic are still speaking with their cheque books to those builders!

The US sailing market is tiny by comparison and even then mainstream euro yachts sell quite well in the US.

Robots build better then humans cause they are more precise ,etc.

Bavaria is not a niche builder it’s a huge producer of mainstream yachts and the thousands and thousands of them on the water attest

Morris is a beautiful yacht , but it is in no way mainstream. It caters for a very particular client

Europe has way more high end niche builders like Morris producing arguably even more niche vessels and at similar prices. Sunbeam , rival , etc

Contract Abeking & Rasmussen to build that next yacht. 10x Morris quality and price.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Branding plays a significant part

Branding works because of the quality.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The US sailing market is tiny by comparison and even then mainstream euro yachts sell quite well in the US.

Robots build better then humans cause they are more precise ,etc.

Bavaria is not a niche builder it’s a huge producer of mainstream yachts and the thousands and thousands of them on the water attest

Morris is a beautiful yacht , but it is in no way mainstream. It caters for a very particular client

Europe has way more high end niche builders like Morris producing arguably even more niche vessels and at similar prices. Sunbeam , rival , etc

Contract Abeking & Rasmussen to build that next yacht. 10x Morris quality and price.

Not sure why you think the US market is tiny. Its the single largest sailboat market in the world. There are more sailboats in the U.S. than any other country in the world...

Anyway you are now proving the point.. There is a space for hand crafted builders. Also proving the point that the European market is different than North America.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Branding works because of the quality.

Well I did a MA in marketing branding is a complex process. Quality plays a part as do many other issues. Quality it itself does not build a brand.

Morris for example would be almost unknown outside the US ( US yacht design tends not to travel well like the cars don’t either ) so one could argue it’s not really a brand in the conventional sense. HR is clearly a “ brand”

This would be true of high end similar European equivalents. They tend to promote themselves within a small niche largely word of mouth markets.

Often it’s merely customisation that attracts buyers rather then simple “ quality “.

No different to a fine kitchen table maker down my road. High quality , custom work , expensive as it’s all loads of labour hours. It’s clearly not a brand per se . Sure he has a few discerning customers but nowhere the many thousands of nice mass produced kitchen tables sold elsewhere.

So why are these yachts expensive

Simple , high cost labour that’s the answer.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Well I did a MA in marketing branding is a complex process. Quality plays a part as do many other issues. Quality it itself does not build a brand.

Morris for example would be almost unknown outside the US ( US yacht design tends not to travel well like the cars don’t either ) so one could argue it’s not really a brand in the conventional sense. HR is clearly a “ brand”

This would be true of high end similar European equivalents. They tend to promote themselves within a small niche largely word of mouth markets.

Often it’s merely customisation that attracts buyers rather then simple “ quality “.

No different to a fine kitchen table maker down my road. High quality , custom work , expensive as it’s all loads of labour hours. It’s clearly not a brand per se . Sure he has a few discerning customers but nowhere the many thousands of nice mass produced kitchen tables sold elsewhere.

So why are these yachts expensive

Simple , high cost labour that’s the answer.

Morris isn't a brand because it's not well known in Europe? That's just plain wrong. If it weren't a brand, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Sure, a brand isn't built exclusively on quality. But in the case of Morris, quality is a major component of their branding.

Not even sure what your point is. Morris makes quality yachts, and quality yachts these days command a premium. I've looked at some of these boats. They're particular. They demand a premium because people are willing to pay it.

The high cost of labor doesn't directly affect the value of used boats. It affects the value of new boats, which some may use as a relative value.

There are other threads on this forum about the quality of Bavaria yachts. You may want to weigh in on some of those with your experiences, because some of them haven't had the same experience you've had.

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Precious hardwood is the issue and yes yachts and homes do consume it.

True. What does precious mean? "of great value; not to be wasted or treated carelessly."


So to not simply restate my previous point, who appointed you the judge and jury of what is waste and frivoulous? Especially when compared to BURNING an area of about 13,000 cityblocks every month to make room for food animals? If all the guitars and bows and boat cabinetry were magically put back into the rainforests? We'd still be in a climate crisis.


So when we all buy in to "save the planet" and stop using T.H in our boats, guitars and 'cello bows." What do we replace it with? Uh-huh, petro-chemicals. As the Buddhist once said, "The bigger the front, the bigger the back."


No animus, just a point of view that is less based in idealism and moreso in cause and effect.



Kurt

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Branding plays a significant part

Branding, in this area, is usually generated by many years of superior design, quality and standards of production, interior materials, systems, fittings, rigging, overall finish and integration etc.

Morris Yachts, just like quite few other reputable builders gained the reputation and prices people are willing to pay for a reason. Existing same builders (not brands changing hands and countries...) at the time of purchase a 20-40 years old boat adds also a lot to the boat price. And that's why, as new they are priced around 2x (or more) the price of a 'mass production' boat of the same size/features etc. As used, if well maintained, the ratios can go higher, also due to the lead time for a new boat.

From the industrial manufacturing, the concept is rather straightforward: In order to build in large numbers, a boat need to be priced at the lowest possible level based on design, features, interior, quality, QA etc. This will enable a good serious industrial builder to use the most sophisticated production techniques, purchase materials at a much lower cost and optimize the assembly - But these are all relative. - Such a boat coming from a small boatyard will cost way more and won't be any better - more likely worse. - That's the reason why so many small builders went out of business over the years.