What, really, is a rogue wave?

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Not correct a comber is a breaker. A roller is just the dominate swell when it gets close to shore/ shallower water but not quite breaking

OK, if we accept that as the definition of a “roller” then I don’t accept that a roller will damage a boat.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Tonali99

Not to put to much emphases on it, but can anyone honestly say it's not fun to rip along, close hauled with waves breaking over the bow?

That description (for me) is the antithesis of “fun”. On a voyage or, in fact, any trip of a day or longer, I would do just about anything to avoid sailing like that, even changing course to one that would substantially extend trip time/distance sailed.

[Russian007]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah I've seen that photo, but that to me does not qualify as rogue, not that I am an expert on them. I just think it is not high enough nor broad enough relative to the others. Seems like I see waves like that pop up pretty frequently in "potato patch" areas around here.

Love to hear some Potato Patch stories if you have any.

Here's a good vid on Rogues. Some are recorded at heights of 160'. They're apparently way more common than people realize. Some are explainable only by the mysteries of Quantum Theory. QT also allegedly produces the apparently NOT mythical "Rogue Holes".
https://youtu.be/2ylOpbW1H-I

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Russian007

Love to hear some Potato Patch stories if you have any.

Here's a good vid on Rogues. Some are recorded at heights of 160'. They're apparently way more common than people realize. Some are explainable only by the mysteries of Quantum Theory. QT also allegedly produces the apparently NOT mythical "Rogue Holes".
https://youtu.be/2ylOpbW1H-I

That's a good little video! As I mentioned before, the potato patch thing is a localized, and well-known phenomenon that occurs where prevailing waves meet currents and/or headlands causing kind of an interference pattern I guess and as a result you can go from regular, large rolling swells to a kind of chaotic jumble of waves, some kind of pyramidal and often pretty steep. And the transition from the regular wave area to the "potato patch" can be kind of abrupt, like maybe under a quarter mile or less. I don't have any horror stories, just events. Last summer I was rounding a point where I knew there often was a potato patch, but the prevailing swells were not too large, though they did have a fairly long wavelength. It really didn't look like much, I mean you couldn't see it clearly until you were in it. Then it was like a washing machine. Once clear of the waves reflected off the cliffs and the current, the sea subsided dramatically. Every once in a while a considerably larger wave, kind of a haystack like you see in the photo previously, would spring up and then fall away quickly and you couldn't really predict them. You could dodge some, but not all. So I don't think I would call those rogue waves. I encountered the same thing only on a slightly bigger scale off Point Conception which is fairly famous near here. I really shouldn't have been out there in that strong afternoon wind and large sells that pile up near the point, but I was young, I was running, coming back home, and I could see the point and the anchorage I was heading for not far ahead. Within a couple miles of the point, things got jumbled and steep and I confess I broached a couple times, nothing too bad, but I did have too much sail up. (you know, gee, we''re almost there, I can ride it out with what I have up, and I don't really want to reef in this stuff... something like that... live and learn. The sea, I think, is merciful, not vindictive, at least for the young.) The thing I really remember from that day though as I was trying to surf down all these things coming from behind, I looked to my side for some reason, and up rose among the waves the enormous black back of a Humpback whale! There was the spout but of course I could hear nothing in all the wind, and then it was gone. That just really made my day. And within a few miles all the drama was over, the anchorage there below the point was, though still windy, like a lake. So anyway, though larger waves will pop up in any conditions by addition, double the size of the others, I don't think any of those I saw qualify as rogue.
BUT, I will say on one occasion flying with my father over the Santa Barbara Channel on a windy day with whitecaps below us, he leaned the plane over and said, "look at that!" And it was clearly one unusually large wave, clearly much larger than the rest, and it was breaking and rolling along. I didn't time it but in my memory it probably rolled along for no more than 15 or 20 seconds. There were no ships or boats nearby. It just melted back into the rest of the waves and was gone. That sure seared itself into my memory, which is probably why these discussions are so interesting to me.

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

That description (for me) is the antithesis of “fun”. On a voyage or, in fact, any trip of a day or longer, I would do just about anything to avoid sailing like that, even changing course to one that would substantially extend trip time/distance sailed.

Not recomended as a long term passage by any means. But a coastal? love it.

[Tonali99]

Originally Posted by Russian007

Love to hear some Potato Patch stories if you have any.

Here's a good vid on Rogues. Some are recorded at heights of 160'. They're apparently way more common than people realize. Some are explainable only by the mysteries of Quantum Theory. QT also allegedly produces the apparently NOT mythical "Rogue Holes".
https://youtu.be/2ylOpbW1H-I

size isn't everything ...

[Russian007]

Originally Posted by Don C L

That's a good little video! As I mentioned before, the potato patch thing is a localized, and well-known phenomenon that occurs where prevailing waves meet currents and/or headlands causing kind of an interference pattern I guess and as a result you can go from regular, large rolling swells to a kind of chaotic jumble of waves, some kind of pyramidal and often pretty steep. And the transition from the regular wave area to the "potato patch" can be kind of abrupt, like maybe under a quarter mile or less. I don't have any horror stories, just events. Last summer I was rounding a point where I knew there often was a potato patch, but the prevailing swells were not too large, though they did have a fairly long wavelength. It really didn't look like much, I mean you couldn't see it clearly until you were in it. Then it was like a washing machine. Once clear of the waves reflected off the cliffs and the current, the sea subsided dramatically. Every once in a while a considerably larger wave, kind of a haystack like you see in the photo previously, would spring up and then fall away quickly and you couldn't really predict them. You could dodge some, but not all. So I don't think I would call those rogue waves. I encountered the same thing only on a slightly bigger scale off Point Conception which is fairly famous near here. I really shouldn't have been out there in that strong afternoon wind and large sells that pile up near the point, but I was young, I was running, coming back home, and I could see the point and the anchorage I was heading for not far ahead. Within a couple miles of the point, things got jumbled and steep and I confess I broached a couple times, nothing too bad, but I did have too much sail up. (you know, gee, we''re almost there, I can ride it out with what I have up, and I don't really want to reef in this stuff... something like that... live and learn. The sea, I think, is merciful, not vindictive, at least for the young.) The thing I really remember from that day though as I was trying to surf down all these things coming from behind, I looked to my side for some reason, and up rose among the waves the enormous black back of a Humpback whale! There was the spout but of course I could hear nothing in all the wind, and then it was gone. That just really made my day. And within a few miles all the drama was over, the anchorage there below the point was, though still windy, like a lake. So anyway, though larger waves will pop up in any conditions by addition, double the size of the others, I don't think any of those I saw qualify as rogue.
BUT, I will say on one occasion flying with my father over the Santa Barbara Channel on a windy day with whitecaps below us, he leaned the plane over and said, "look at that!" And it was clearly one unusually large wave, clearly much larger than the rest, and it was breaking and rolling along. I didn't time it but in my memory it probably rolled along for no more than 15 or 20 seconds. There were no ships or boats nearby. It just melted back into the rest of the waves and was gone. That sure seared itself into my memory, which is probably why these discussions are so interesting to me.

Thanks. I assumed it's *THE* Potato Patch between Sta. Cruz and Rosa but apparent that's merely *A* Potato Patch, and the a Potato Patch is a generalized phenomena you can find any where.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Russian007

Thanks. I assumed it's *THE* Potato Patch between Sta. Cruz and Rosa but apparent that's merely *A* Potato Patch, and the a Potato Patch is a generalized phenomena you can find any where.

Yeah "THE" potato patch that I was referring to was the one you mention, off the west point of Santa Cruz. I just hear that term used for other spots too. Between Santa Cruz and Anacapa sometimes gets some too.

[jlubinsky]

Great info here
While visiting the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado I stumbled on a book about the oceans. It described "rogue wave" as one unlike anything around it being 30 or 40 feet in height. It referred to wave studies revealing that, in strong winds, 2 or more waves can build on each as they travel and become one enormous wave. Actual situations were documented showing the unique conditions required to create the rogue wave. The rogue wave concept referred to in this book is a rare phenomena existing only in rare conditions and requiring very strong winds which originate in a very short time period. That results in the early waves not being able to outrun the newer waves being formed. Either way, hope that I never experience a "rogue wave".

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jlubinsky

Great info here
While visiting the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado I stumbled on a book about the oceans. It described "rogue wave" as one unlike anything around it being 30 or 40 feet in height. It referred to wave studies revealing that, in strong winds, 2 or more waves can build on each as they travel and become one enormous wave. Actual situations were documented showing the unique conditions required to create the rogue wave. The rogue wave concept referred to in this book is a rare phenomena existing only in rare conditions and requiring very strong winds which originate in a very short time period. That results in the early waves not being able to outrun the newer waves being formed. Either way, hope that I never experience a "rogue wave".

As one that has been through a few ( on navy ships) i hope that you never experience one as well.

[Don C L]

You know there are some waves that just kinda take your breath away, and you look into that slowly growing massive mountainous yawning maw, clearly distinct form all the rest, and say, "oh _____." Those are probably the real rogue waves.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by jlubinsky

... Actual situations were documented showing the unique conditions required to create the rogue wave. The rogue wave concept referred to in this book is a rare phenomena existing only in rare conditions and requiring very strong winds which originate in a very short time period...

The book is out of date in that recent research with satellites shows that rogue waves happen far more frequently than scientist thought. Scientists have denied rouge waves have existed for decades, if not centuries, in spite of the reports of many sailors.

From NOAA, https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/roguewaves.html,

Constructive interference. Extreme waves often form because swells, while traveling across the ocean, do so at different speeds and directions. As these swells pass through one another, their crests, troughs, and lengths sometimes coincide and reinforce each other. This process can form unusually large, towering waves that quickly disappear. If the swells are travelling in the same direction, these mountainous waves may last for several minutes before subsiding.

Focusing of wave energy. When waves formed by a storm develop in a water current against the normal wave direction, an interaction can take place which results in a shortening of the wave frequency. This can cause the waves to dynamically join together, forming very big 'rogue' waves. The currents where these are sometimes seen are the Gulf Stream and Agulhas current. Extreme waves developed in this fashion tend to be longer lived.

I also wonder if rouge waves are possible when long length waves move over seamounts. I believe this was mentioned up thread.

Later,
Dan

[Don C L]

I just came across this video. NOT a rogue wave, but just demonstrate that even a normal collection of somewhat confused seas can result in getting splashed when yer not expecting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-VVb8Ag49g

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I just came across this video. NOT a rogue wave, but just demonstrate that even a normal collection of somewhat confused seas can result in getting splashed when yer not expecting it.

Hope his companion way was closed

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Hope his companion way was closed

ahh, probably not... soggy pancakes...