What size/type first our first sailboat- 2 adults/2 kids sailing in Miami/Keys

[dakno]

Everything said here is spot on and correct. I noticed you mentioned trailer sailors. In my younger days I had a O'Day 22 for several years. During summers on the Mississippi Gulf Coast I would take my 2 young sons and usually 1 friend plus a dog out to the barrier islands for a week at a time. We mostly slept in a tent on a beach but the point is that you and a few kids can have plenty of space on even a 22' boat. Alas, no ac. Stay in the water when its really hot. Also a cockpit shower is great in the heat. Good luck

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

If I had two young lads to "drag up" during the summers, while their mum's working ashore I would start with a Catalina 27 or, even better, a Columbia 26(I), because they are essentially "small boats" with "mid size boat" accommodations: Big enuff to go crusing for a coupla weeks at a time, though not much more. They are, however, VERY easily handled by a couple of lads, let alone their dad. For my money, the Columbia is a FAR better behaved boat than is the Catalina, and because of that, she'll prepare you better for a "big (well behaved) boat".

While I am not a fan of the Columbia boats (no offence), I do totally agree with the idea...do you really want to focus on luxury and comfort? IMHO, a little discomfort is part of sailing!!! Especially with two young lads! They will flourish on a smaller boat with less luxury. A small boat can be the most fun. Big comfortable boats are for old people who can't live without a 4 piece bathroom and a coil spring mattress.

So get yourself an old Pearson 30, Albin Vega, or Contessa 26 and rough it a bit. You'll make memories and your sons will develop both skills and character!

PS. Take lots of pictures

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by akprb

I have the perfect boat for you! A few more pesos but you’ll be turnkey!!!!!!

1994 Hunter Legend sailboat for sale in Florida

Here's a Hunter 35.5...almost the same boat (as the H40.5 above), but half the price: https://hunter.sailboatowners.com/cl...wad&adid=20227

[Jim Cate]

While I am not a fan of the Columbia boats (no offence), I do totally agree with the idea...do you really want to focus on luxury and comfort? IMHO, a little discomfort is part of sailing!!! Especially with two young lads! They will flourish on a smaller boat with less luxury. A small boat can be the most fun. Big comfortable boats are for old people who can't live without a 4 piece bathroom and a coil spring mattress.

Big luxurious, Catalina 30??? surely you jest!

Doing t he sort of sailing the OP proposes with his kids is one thing. When you add a wife to the crew, the small boat will perhaps be less appealing, especially after a week or two aboard at anchor.

Been there and done that, and survived... even had a good time (on a CAtalina 22). Much preferred cruising on the next boat, a Yankee 30.

Jim

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by ahumbug1

I bought my 86' Catalina 34' for 32.000. She is roomy and the best feature is the aft cabin. It has a queen size bunk and a teak door for more privacy. The saloon is open and we don't feel cramped with visitors aboard. I think it would be perfect for you and your boys. I think the 34' would be a better choice than a 30' with an open quarter birth. The 27' would be very cramped. The V birth is small and so is the dinnett. We looked at one and my wife told me if I bought it she would not spend a night aboard.

I am so glad I found a 34' in good shape. We love it!

Excited for you! Have fun!

Al
S/V St. Thomas

I agree!!!

Guess why?!?

One thing not mentioned is a good owners association and website. You never have to reinvent the wheel, and a good po has taken care of any issues. Catalina 34 International Association

Happy hunting.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Big luxurious, Catalina 30??? surely you jest!

Doing t he sort of sailing the OP proposes with his kids is one thing. When you add a wife to the crew, the small boat will perhaps be less appealing, especially after a week or two aboard at anchor.

Been there and done that, and survived... even had a good time (on a CAtalina 22). Much preferred cruising on the next boat, a Yankee 30.

Jim

Maybe you liked the Y30 so much because of your experiences on the C22?

Whatever boat he gets, the important thing is to get out there and sail! And he'll have 3-foot-itis in no time, whatever he gets.

[TrentePieds]

No 30-footer is "luxurious". And why would it have to be? ALL cruising requires that accommodation be made to immediate circumstances. The Yankee 30 is a very nice boat indeed, and her layout below decks is identical to TP's. TP is just fine for weeks and even months on end for man and maid, but with 2 kiddies? Don't think so. Not even if I were 50 years younger :-)!

So this "hopeless romantic", were he fifty years younger and had two lads to drag up, would go for a 10K Columbia 26 or similar to get the lads started. 10K you can recover in a sale because there are all sorts of twenty-somethings about with a couple of lads to teach. And if you don't recover it all, and have to walk away from some or even all of it, just chalk it up to tuition fees.

Then, when the lads have earned their ABs, will be the time to move up to a real cruising boat. Perhaps, if the budget will take it, one in the "upper forties". With LOTSA canvass :-)! By the time a lad is 14 and has four or five seasons behind him under decent tutelage, there should be no reason that 1) he can't hand a 400-foot piece of canvas, 2) he can't take a noon-sight, 3) he can't pick a spot to drop the hook and handle the ground tackle, 4) he can't park the boat forwards and backwards and even sideways if that's what required.

Those things are IMO best learned while working sans "luxuries" :-)

Cheers

TP

[Don C L]

$10K Columbia 26? Wow that would be a really nice one! Whatever you get, start out with short sailing times to nice places and long times at anchor, kids love that! Especially when you throw in fishing poles and masks and snorkels. Then work up to longer sail times with some other really special place to end up. And don't get a boat that is TOO NICE. Make sure it is safe and strong and kinda pretty but NOT so pretty that you will yell at anyone who breaks or dents or scratches anything or spills any hot or sticky things all over the place, or gets fish guts somewhere... ask me how I know those! I am lucky I have not obsessed about making my boat Bristol, yet! I'll wait till the kids are a little more grown up.

[TrentePieds]

Spot on, Don! Tom Sawyer goes to sea, eh :-)?

And the dinghy you tow, let it be a nice little spritsl rigged job, and let the kiddies have at it!

TP

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by zimm

Hello,

We moved down to Fort Lauderdale and plan to stay 3-4 years (we're a military family). We're looking to get our first sailboat this summer. We should be able to take advantage of a military marina for a cheap slip.

At this point, I'm in the research phase to find out what size boat, old is okay, "mandatory" options to have, and wind up with a rough shopping list of potential boats. (Catalina or Hunter 30 comes to mind)

Background:
We have 2 boys, aged 5 and 7. I just retired so I'll have free time to sail and work on the boat. I'm very handy and can fix about anything, but I'm new to sailing. My wife and I took a multi-day sailing class in a Catalina 16.5 and I've sailed a few times solo so I'm comfortable with that boat, running the sheet and jib, etc.

Sailing: I envision day trips or overnight trips on weekends around Miami and the Keys. During the summer when the kids are out of school, we could stay out longer but my wife works, so I might be "solo" with the kids sometimes. We can also do a couple of 1 week long trips a year- thinking about the bahamas or other explorations.

Requirements: Shallow draft. Air conditioning. Sleeping for 4 without having to break down the dinette for the kids every night. I want a real helm, not a tiller. I'm assuming I need a jib furler and auto pilot if I'm going sail "solo" with the kids.
. . .
Budget- I have no idea, but hoping to stay under $30k all-in for initial purchase and set up. We have the budget for slow and steady upgrades, but not dumping thousands in right away.

A tiller is a real helm. You want a wheel.

I would look at Cal 34s. The later Mark 2 & 3 versions are more likely to have wheels than the original version. The Mark 1 & 2 have 2 quarter berths so plenty of room for the boys. The later Mark 3 has 1 quarter berth so one kid will be on a settee.
CAL 34 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
CAL 2-34 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
CAL 34-III sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

[TrentePieds]

Hamburking: I LOVED those pics. And so did MB. That second one let all her mommy hormones loose :-0)!

TP

[Kalinowski]

Our first family boat was a Hunter 33.5. My wife and I had two young boys. The forward cabin offered privacy and the aft and salon settees were great for the kids. Inexpensive and easy to handle, the boat was a great weekender and coastal cruiser..

[zimm]

Great advice so far, keep it coming!

I'm more inclined to step down in price on a boat that we could pay cash for and not take on debt (learned my lessons on that before). I could spend $10k pretty easily, but the closer to $20k we go, the more uncomfortable I would be (that's half of our life's nest-egg).

I didn't think about the A/C not working while not docked, I guess I assumed these things had gensets on a 30. So I can skip it as I don't plan to sleep on it docked much. If we ever do, then the "window shaker" in the hatch would work.

Tiller vs wheel... I never sailed with a wheel, but I was thinking I could couple the auto pilot while running around to get a drink, adjust a line, take a pee, etc. With the tiller, that's 100% hands on steering without a rope gadget to hold it. But I have no personal experience beyond the 16.5, and you couldn't take your hand off to scratch a nose without the rudder going sideways and halting forward progress!

I looked at a Catalina 22 last year with cash in hand, but after seeing how much work stepping the mast and doing the rigging every time would be, plus the interior was pretty small, I walked away thinking a 27-30 footer would be better.

As for size/privacy, we're good with a cramped space for a few years. We don't need the Class A motorhomes of a boat. We camp a lot in a 17' casita with bunks for the kids, wife and I share a 54" wide "bed" on the dinette and we're good for days at a time. Granted in camping, we spend most of our time outside, and on a boat, it's either cabin or top side.

Here's what we're used to:

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by zimm

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1. Tiller vs wheel... I never sailed with a wheel, but I was thinking I could couple the auto pilot while running around to get a drink, adjust a line, take a pee, etc. With the tiller, that's 100% hands on steering without a rope gadget to hold it. But I have no personal experience beyond the 16.5, and you couldn't take your hand off to scratch a nose without the rudder going sideways and halting forward progress!

2. I looked at a Catalina 22 last year with cash in hand, but after seeing how much work stepping the mast and doing the rigging every time would be, plus the interior was pretty small, I walked away thinking a 27-30 footer would be better.

As for size/privacy, we're good with a cramped space for a few years. We don't need the Class A motorhomes of a boat. We camp a lot in a 17' casita with bunks for the kids, wife and I share a 54" wide "bed" on the dinette and we're good for days at a time. Granted in camping, we spend most of our time outside, and on a boat, it's either cabin or top side.

1. They make autopilots for tillers, less expensive than wheel pilots.

2. On a C22 (older models), you drop the dinette table and make a plywood cover for the walk-through section and you have a queen sized bed. The kids sleep in the V berth. [Pop top models highly recommended over fixed hatch.]

[TrentePieds]

Quote: "I'm more inclined to step down in price on a boat that we could pay cash for and not take on debt (learned my lessons on that before). I could spend $10k pretty easily, but the closer to $20k we go, the more uncomfortable I would be (that's half of our life's nest-egg)."

Ouch! Forty grand total ain't really enuff! You'll get a useable 27-footer for that budget, if you are really, really careful, but not likely a 30-footer.

Quote:"I didn't think about the A/C not working while not docked, I guess I assumed these things had gensets on a 30. So I can skip it as I don't plan to sleep on it docked much. If we ever do, then the "window shaker" in the hatch would work."

Neither your money budget nor your power budget will stand A/C. It's a total fallacy that you need A/C even in Florida., Two hours with a sewing machine and 4 yards of denim will make you a "windsl" that directs the breeze down your forehatch and out the companionway. That's how it's been done for hundreds of years. Remember the difference twixt "wanting" and "needing" :-)

Quote: "Tiller vs wheel... I never sailed with a wheel, but I was thinking I could couple the auto pilot while running around to get a drink, adjust a line, take a pee, etc. With the tiller, that's 100% hands on steering without a rope gadget to hold it. But I have no personal experience."

Again a misconception. A sailboat is not an F350. In a boat you do NOT stay hunched over the wheel needing every last smidgen of concentration of which you are capable just to prevent yourself getting killed. You can easily leave the helm long enuff to see the man about the dog or to make yourself a cuppa. Or to do your navigating. Nobody needs to be at the helm while you do those things. I rarely touch my helm once we are away from the marina. Why would I? MyBeloved can't wait to get on the helm, so why deny her the pleasure? If all else fails, heave 'er to and let 'er do 'er own thing while you do yours. Me - I'm just the skipper. I've nothing to do, so I just hang around and get bored out of my skull. Unless I do my marlinspike stuff. Or make tea. Or read a book. Your "100% hands on" comment about tiller steering is WAY off the mark. We are not talking racing dinghies. In a well balanced cruising boat (e.g. Columbia 26), you DON'T have to be clinging on to the tiller like a demented monkey. She'll steer herself when close hauled. When off the wind, she'll just need a poke now and again. An auto pilot is NOT needed for what you are proposing to do, but if you insist, they are as available for tiller application as they are for wheel application. Remember that the cockpit is your back porch. Invaluable living space, particularly where you are. You don't want to waste it on a binnacle and wheel when you can have a tiller that swings up and out of the way so your back porch will be truly useful. Remember that 95% of your time in the boat you'll NOT be steering!.

Quote: "I walked away thinking a 27-30 footer would be better."
Indisputably :-0)!

Quote: "As for size/privacy, we're good with a cramped space for a few years. We don't need the Class A motorhomes of a boat. We camp a lot in a 17' casita with bunks for the kids, wife and I share a 54" wide "bed" on the dinette and we're good for days at a time. Granted in camping, we spend most of our time outside, and on a boat, it's either cabin or top side."

And there is the rub! Yes indeed, a 26-footer will see you through for several years and you'll get most of your money back when you flog 'er again. In a cruising boat, where you are, you'll be spending most of your time topside. So don't waste your cockpit on a wheel. Your kidding will need it for a playground. And so will you :-)! What you'll be needing far more than a wheel is a bimini!

TP