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sjs · 08-03-2004, 07:21

Hate to admit my ignorance but I'm currently boatless and looking for a new boat. It's been a long time since I have been in the market and I'm seeing some terms I have either forgotten or never knew. One is the statement that the boat has a
B&R rig and I have no clue what this means. Any help here?

sy Dolce Vita · 08-03-2004, 07:49

swept aft shrouds and no backstay

sjs · 08-03-2004, 08:05

Thanks sy Dolce Vita. I understand generally why one would reduce standing rigging, and its windage and weight aloft, if it can be done without sacrificing strength but would you know the specific alleged benefits claimed with this B&R rig?

**GordMay** · 08-03-2004, 09:23

The B & R rig utilizes 30 degree swept-back spreaders creating 120 degrees between each rigging point. This tripod arrangement is similar to the huge radio towers you see from the highways. Claimed benefits (by Hunter) of this rig include:

The strength is increased because the loading to the rig itself is decreased. Less movement of the rig itself means less fatigue on the rigging which is usually the primary culprit of failures.

This backstayless design allows for a more efficient mainsail with a larger roach for increased performance. This means less work for the crew in that the power sail is the main.

The shrouds are led outboard which reduces compression loads to the deck and hull while allowing tighter sheeting angles on the smaller jib for better windward performance. With the addition of the newly created mast struts, the point loading at the mast base is spread among the three points and the extra support allows for a smaller mast section. This reduction in weight aloft decreases heeling and pitching moments which creates a more comfortable ride. Not only is the rig more secure but the design of a large, easily handled main and a small jib make sail trimming and handling much easier than the conventional rigs with their large genoas.
http://www.hunterowners.com/ref/br.html

jbowering · 23-01-2013, 12:50

The theory is good but for long distance cruising and downwind work its a disaster. The boom has limited outboard movement and this is hampered even further by the in boom furling system which cramps the movement of the gooseneck.

pete33458 · 23-01-2013, 13:02

Yes, I sail a Hunter so equipped, and while there are advantages, you are REALLY limited in how far out you can ease the mainsail. Unless sailing wing and wing (directly downwind), I don't see it as so much of a disadvantage, as the genny can compensate for a lot, and downwind sailing is not efficient anyway. However, wing and wing is really compromised, and if you happen to be racing, I would think it would be very important on most points off the wind.

The theoretical "larger roach" that Gord mentioned as one of the Hunter claims is just that: theoretical, since in-mast furled sails (Hunter) must have a negative roach anyway. Nonetheless, the absence of backstays has its advantages, as does in-mast furling. pete

sailorboy1 · 23-01-2013, 13:05

WOW!!!!! How do you find a 8.5 year old thread in order to suddenly make a post on the topic? How many pages back in threads does it take to go that far back?

And the B&R rig has nothing to do with an in boom furling system!

BTW - the B&R rig goes downwind just fine! You just need to learn to sail the rig based on it's design instead of trying to sail it as a standard rig. Lots of boats have swept back spreaders other than the B&R.

Bash · 23-01-2013, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbowering

The theory is good but for long distance cruising and downwind work its a disaster. The boom has limited outboard movement and this is hampered even further by the in boom furling system which cramps the movement of the gooseneck.

Some bad info here, especially the "disaster" part. A B&R rig doesn't imply in-boom or in-mast furling systems any more than any other rig. And "limited outboard movement" isn't a problem in any way. Clearly, this isn't a rig for going DDW with a conventional spinnaker, but most of us tend not to sail that way anyway.

I've owned two boats with B&R rigs, and have sailed close to 20,000 nm on them. The biggest downside to these rigs is the fact that you can't tension the forestay in strong winds, unless of course you add a backstay, which is always a possibility. The biggest strength, correspondingly, is that there's no backstay to interfere with mainsail roach.

They are indeed strong. I know of a situation where boat sailed into a day beacon full speed, snapping the starboard shroud, and the mast not only didn't come down, but wasn't damaged.

tbodine88 · 23-01-2013, 15:07

West wight potters have these. Those crazy folks who sail in San Francisco Bay in Potters think its best to add a back-stay, so they can tension their rig better to sail in those high winds.

fair winds.

charleshagen · 21-05-2016, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjs

Hate to admit my ignorance but I'm currently boatless and looking for a new boat. It's been a long time since I have been in the market and I'm seeing some terms I have either forgotten or never knew. One is the statement that the boat has a
B&R rig and I have no clue what this means. Any help here?

Watch this video:

https://youtu.be/Zd6B_7jwKQs

frozenhawaiian · 21-05-2016, 13:21

they're surprisingly strong. strong enough that the 1D-35, which is a pretty powered up race boat uses this type of rig. I've raced offshore with some massive spinnakers on 1D-35's and the rigs have held up well.

Paul J. Nolan · 24-05-2016, 21:07

Didn't we just hash over this same topic in the past few months?

B&R is for the designers/inventors Bergstrom and Ridder who also invented the Windex masthead telltale. This was back during the IOR amd was a way for race boats to use a smaller mast section. I don't recall if the original rig dispensed with the backstay or not but it wasn't long before it was realized you could set the shrouds back, get rid of the backstay, and carry a huge roach, and roach has traditionally been unmeasured sail area. Despite some advantages, the rig never really caught on with the racing fraternity. It did not lend itself to bending in an era in which bending spars was very widespread, there was enough rigging aloft to threaten the seagull population, you couldn't let the main out downwind, and the lack of a backstay was disconcerting offshore.

But the bottom-market builders like Hunter realized the savings afforded by a small spar section more than offset the cost of some extra rigging, so they began pushing an imaginary performamce advantage to a gullible market segment, but in my opinion the true reason was cost reduction.

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't consider a B&R rig for an instant. Probably wouldn't have a Windex either.

Paul

Stumble · 24-05-2016, 22:05

One of the hallmarks of a B&R rig is a very small mast section with a lot of intermediate shrouds. For racers this became far less important with the advent of affordable carbon rigs, which has far higher stiffness than aluminium, and thus could use a smaller mast section without needing the intermediate shrouds. For aluminium masts it's still a legitimate option, but they can be very difficult to tune properly.