When To Use a RADAR Reflector?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by waterman46

We don't worry about other "sailors" seeing us. We worry about the big guys. In most cases they actually do have someone on watch who knows how to use radar. Before AIS I was seen on radar (as much as 20 miles away) several times by ships who contacted us over VHF to arrange courses. But today, I suppose they rely almost completely on AIS and you are right that now active AIS is the most important protection you can have.

Even if they see you on radar, AIS is still useful. If the other traffic wants to talk to you, it's easier when they know the name of that radar blob on their screen.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Well the military vessel will definitely have lookouts on duty so that shouldn't be a problem.

You mean like these guys ?
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...in-busy-waters

You better stay in "busy waters"

or away from fishing grounds like this ...
https://www.soundingsonline.com/feat...g-vessels-work

[goboatingnow]

On a few deliveries , all with radar reflectors, no big ship I called up could see us on their radar.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

On a few deliveries , all with radar reflectors, no big ship I called up could see us on their radar.

All you know from that is they "didn't" see you, not they "couldn't" see you. Sadly most watchkeepers don't know how to tune their radars effectively, or typically don't bother most of the time. Also, as you might have read in the reports linked earlier, most commercial ships only use their S-band radars out in the oggie, and most of the reflectors are optimized for X-band.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by waterman46

Not sure I understand your meaning. You wouldn't bother to use a radar reflector because there is no guarantee?

Nothing wrong with hoisting a passive reflector, but every objective test I've seen over the years shows results that are, at best, lackluster. Plus you have no way to verify you've improved your signature.

The use case for reflectors has narrowed. They've always been more useful in open waters than close quarters. These days, most vessels in open waters running radar also have AIS.

Peter

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

All you know from that is they "didn't" see you, not they "couldn't" see you. Sadly most watchkeepers don't know how to tune their radars effectively, or typically don't bother most of the time. Also, as you might have read in the reports linked earlier, most commercial ships only use their S-band radars out in the oggie, and most of the reflectors are optimized for X-band.

In one case I asked the watch specifically to tune the radar and he seemed to know what he was going. It was at night and in quite calm seas. He couldn’t get a decent return, we spent quite some time at it.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In one case I asked the watch specifically to tune the radar and he seemed to know what he was going. It was at night and in quite calm seas. He couldn’t get a decent return, we spent quite some time at it.

Did you confirm the band used?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

These days, most vessels in open waters running radar also have AIS.

Peter

Except for a couple of hundred thousand military and fishing vessels

[boatpoker]

Few people understand or can properly set the STC, FTC, tune or gain on radars.

Modern radars have been dummed down for the masses with their often incorrect "automatic settings"

My RADAR/ARPA/MAARPA course was 11 weeks with simulator time.
The operators manual that comes with a Garmin or Raymarine unit simply
doesn't cut it.

[boatpoker]

I'd still rather stand in front of a judge saying ...

"Yes, your honour, I did have my radar reflector deployed in accordance with IMO Collision Regulations".

Rather than " No your honour.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

Right. Fiberglass is pretty much invisible to radar. What return you get is from masts, people, any other solid masses above the water line, especially metal. A reflector helps a lot. I once noted on my radar screen a 40 something sailboat about a quarter mile out and a 16 foot aluminum fishing boat about half a mile out. The fishing boat gave probably five times the return.

Radar readily picks up fiberglass power boats, I've often wondered if as well as an aluminum mast or not though. Hard to really compare. Picks up large waves , waterspouts and storm cells too.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Few people understand or can properly set the STC, FTC, tune or gain on radars.

Modern radars have been dummed down for the masses with their often incorrect "automatic settings"

My RADAR/ARPA/MAARPA course was 11 weeks with simulator time.
The operators manual that comes with a Garmin or Raymarine unit simply
doesn't cut it.

What you just said is exactly in line with my experience on radar equiped boats: It takes some training and experience to get the most out of radar, and even then constant attention and interpretation is needed. The automatic settings don't seem to be as good as a skilled operator.

So that brings us to the problem: Since I don't carry a radar operator or extra skilled watch stander, radar operation is not really how I wish to spend my passage time. I think "eyes out of the boat" is better use of my and mate's time.

And then there is the electrical use that radar has, AND, for my boat, where do I put a radar console? I don't even have a chart plotter on deck.

[rslifkin]

The auto radar modes are specifically for the case where you don't have an extra person just to run the radar. A good radar guy will do better, but the auto is meant to be good enough without the extra person. Having a good spot for the display can be a challenge on some boats, however.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by wingssail

So that brings us to the problem: Since I don't carry a radar operator or extra skilled watch stander, radar operation is not really how I wish to spend my passage time. I think "eyes out of the boat" is better use of my and mate's time.

It really doesn't take that much time or effort. Training is definitely something that is worth getting, so that you get the most out of your radar, but there are lots of online courses, books and other resources that can check that box.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

the auto is meant to be good enough without the extra person. Having a good spot for the display can be a challenge on some boats, however.

Thats why I miss my old ancient Furuno ... no menus, no touch screen. just a bunch of dial knobs that I could use without even looking at them.

Drives me nuts that in "modern" radar one has to navigate through dozens of menus with dozens of useless "features" to find the four most basic adjustments that need constant adjustment on the fly.