Who has run into a floating container

[freshalaska]

Originally Posted by billknny

Think about this for just a second...

If the ocean was as full of shipping containers as some people try to tell you, why have you NEVER seen one wash up on the beach?

I have sailed the Atlantic, and the Pacific, and been along thousands of miles of coast line and I have never seen one. I have never heard a credible report of anyone actually hitting one. There are lots of stories, but when you dive into them you find out that they hit SOMETHING and assumed it must have been one of those evil containers they had heard so much about.

I know firsthand of many boats who have hit whales. One that sunk. I have hit a whale (and not sunk!) Not one that hit a verified container.

It's always some version of "I have been told that many hit them." Nonsense. Doesn't happen. People who actually are out sailing in the real ocean know that containers are not something to worry about, or at least are way, way, way down the list.

From reading the responses to this query I’d have to agree with billknny far more real hazards than the once in a million chance of hitting a container. Fear of something happening and reality are often far apart.
Anouther thing how does something float just under the surface. Anouther once in a million. Things sink of float unless they have the exact same specific gravity of the medium they are in which isn’t gong to happen in real life of a container.

[jason902]

Originally Posted by freshalaska

From reading the responses to this query I’d have to agree with billknny far more real hazards than the once in a million chance of hitting a container. Fear of something happening and reality are often far apart.
Anouther thing how does something float just under the surface. Anouther once in a million. Things sink of float unless they have the exact same specific gravity of the medium they are in which isn’t gong to happen in real life of a container.

Does anyone armor their keel with anything like a piece of 2x2 angle iron? I saw a product once called (I think) keel guard that was high density plastic about 4 inches across that was glued to the keel to protect it. This product was aimed more at intentionally beaching your boat... It seems that with a little judicious cutting, welding, and glassing on you could protect the most vulnerable part of your bottom.

[Fiveslide]

Originally Posted by jason902

Does anyone armor their keel with anything like a piece of 2x2 angle iron? I saw a product once called (I think) keel guard that was high density plastic about 4 inches across that was glued to the keel to protect it. This product was aimed more at intentionally beaching your boat... It seems that with a little judicious cutting, welding, and glassing on you could protect the most vulnerable part of your bottom.

It's not denting the keel you have to worry about. It's forcing it back and up into the boat that kills a boat. Busting up all the keel structure and shearing bolts is major damage, fairing a dent in the lead us the least of your worries. So, armor may actually make that kind of damage worse.

[freshalaska]

Originally Posted by jason902

Does anyone armor their keel with anything like a piece of 2x2 angle iron? I saw a product once called (I think) keel guard that was high density plastic about 4 inches across that was glued to the keel to protect it. This product was aimed more at intentionally beaching your boat... It seems that with a little judicious cutting, welding, and glassing on you could protect the most vulnerable part of your bottom.

Here in Souhteastern Alaskan waters its fairly common for fishing boats to reinforce their boats bow stems with metal sheathing. In the old days before most logging stopped there was always a danager of hitting logs that had broken loose from log rafts and still in places you have floating icebergs. Fisherman often tired and running at night always faced a real danger of running into something potentially floating on the surface.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by jason902

Does anyone armor their keel with anything like a piece of 2x2 angle iron? I saw a product once called (I think) keel guard that was high density plastic about 4 inches across that was glued to the keel to protect it. This product was aimed more at intentionally beaching your boat... It seems that with a little judicious cutting, welding, and glassing on you could protect the most vulnerable part of your bottom.

Kevlar reenforcement along with watertight bulkheads.

[chris14679]

A large Moody ketch called Idlevice I had previously sailed on hit a submerged container off the Norwegian coast about 20 years ago. Fortunately the hull was not holed but there was damage and yellow paint found on the leading edge of the keel. The yacht came to such a sudden stop that the backstay parted and the mast was lost over the bow and had to be cut loose. The insurance didn't pay out due to a dispute over being near (or beyond) the northern limit of the insurance cover and the owner didn't have sufficient funds to replace the rig, very sad situation.

As the container sinks deeper in the water the density of the water increases rapidly. Containers tend to find equilibrium at a point where the denser water is heavy enough to support them. They can sink to one or two metres below the surface and just stay there at exactly that level, impossible to see but ready to strike your keel.

Any container carrying items which trap air inside such as plastic boxes, electronics or footballs can do this. Insulated/refrigerated contains too. The majority of containers will sink but those that do float can float around for years. You just don't tend to see them unless you hit them!

[Jim Woodall]

Had a friend who rebuilt a 70 ft. wooden trawler from stem to stern. He eventually had the hull glassed from the waterline to the keel. After about a year he applied a polyurethane protective coating,similar to the material used for pickup truck bedliners after a barrier coat and bottom paint. He had grown up on the coast and had seen a few local working boats that had done the same. It was heavy (heavier than typical bottom paint) but he was not worried about the weight. The polyurethane went on beautifully and was very tough. The sad part is that about 10 months later there was a fire at his marina and the boat burned to the waterline. The hull coating couldn't protect her from fire.

[freshalaska]

Originally Posted by Jim Woodall

Had a friend who rebuilt a 70 ft. wooden trawler from stem to stern. He eventually had the hull glassed from the waterline to the keel. After about a year he applied a polyurethane protective coating,similar to the material used for pickup truck bedliners after a barrier coat and bottom paint. He had grown up on the coast and had seen a few local working boats that had done the same. It was heavy (heavier than typical bottom paint) but he was not worried about the weight. The polyurethane went on beautifully and was very tough. The sad part is that about 10 months later there was a fire at his marina and the boat burned to the waterline. The hull coating couldn't protect her from fire.

Maybe I didnt understand the post, seems poly on top of bottom paint would render the usefulness of bottom paint.

[TravelinLight]

The author suspects that he hit a container. This is a great book and tale of survival. I found the writing excellent.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/adr...AukKEALw_wcB#/

[Jim Woodall]

Originally Posted by freshalaska

Maybe I didnt understand the post, seems poly on top of bottom paint would render the usefulness of bottom paint.

The barrier coat and bottom paint had been applied previously. It was pressure washed and lightly sanded before the poly coat went on. No bottom paint was applied over the poly coat. This guy is no amateur. He had rebuilt several boats before but this was the biggest. He had also done lots of experimenting with different ways to treat the bottom of boats. He is a chemist by trade and has had several U.S. Navy and USCG contracts over the years. He had come up with a poly coating the USCG had used in the past for many different applications. He also helped built and coat (with chemical scrubbers) huge filters used on nuclear subs and aircraft carriers. NASA also uses some of the filters his company makes.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Fiveslide

It's not denting the keel you have to worry about. It's forcing it back and up into the boat that kills a boat. Busting up all the keel structure and shearing bolts is major damage, fairing a dent in the lead us the least of your worries. So, armor may actually make that kind of damage worse.

Depends on your keel type, unless I hit a corner with the hull or something, I feel sure I’d come to a stop after riding way up on it, but suffer no keel damage to speak of.
It reminds me of the Cat that hit some kind of unlit fish farm a year or two ago, it’s made apparently of a large ring of PVC or similar pipe and floats.
He tore one of his saildrives nearly off and I believe lost at least one rudder and swamped at least one of the hulls.
I remember thinking that there was a good chance I would have sailed right over it, with little to no damage, depending of course on how deep I could have pushed the pipes.
There is something to be said for an encapsulated full keel, with no appendages that hang down to catch on submerged objects whether they be rocks or trees, or containers

[Montanan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCeqx7gSQXI

[Montanan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UveB6IUG6Q

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Woodall

Had a friend who rebuilt a 70 ft. wooden trawler from stem to stern. He eventually had the hull glassed from the waterline to the keel. After about a year he applied a polyurethane protective coating,similar to the material used for pickup truck bedliners after a barrier coat and bottom paint. He had grown up on the coast and had seen a few local working boats that had done the same. It was heavy (heavier than typical bottom paint) but he was not worried about the weight. The polyurethane went on beautifully and was very tough. The sad part is that about 10 months later there was a fire at his marina and the boat burned to the waterline. The hull coating couldn't protect her from fire.

Confused...was there a container involved?

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by midnite44

I ran into one off Palm Beach about 30 miles offshore on my Irwin 46 Ketch . It broke the rudder and skeg off 1/2 way down and sheared the rudder post pin jamming the rudder hard over which caused me to be only able to make left turns , had to be towed in to Rybovich ship yard . Most of these things float about 2 to 6 inches below the surface making them very hard to see , worse than that there is no one tasked with recovering them , and according to the USCG at any one time there is approximately 900 floating in all of the oceans . I also found out how they are loaded on the transport ships , they look at the forecasted weather to determine how high they stack them , smooth seas equals stacked high , rough seas equals a lesser stack, so if a forecast is wrong and a ship runs into rough seas which dangerously affects their stability they then start jettisoning them to get a safer stability index for conditions . sometimes they sink and sometimes the ones with electronics in them which are hermetically sealed will float for days or even weeks . All you can hope for if you hit one is that your hull isn't holed as mine wasn't so I was able to limp into port with assistance . The USCG came out an towed me to about 2 miles off shore where seatow took over an towed me in .

Sorry but container ships do not purposely "jettison" containers in bad weather. If you've ever been on one and watched the loading and unloading you'd realize how absurdly dangerous that would be for whoever was tasked to run out in a storm and perform said "jettison" routine! And no one is tasked with recovering them because it is an impossible task...you yourself just said they float under water so are impossible to see on radar or even visually unless right over them, and by definition they fall off in a fierce storm that will move them some distance before anyone could go out and expend vast resources to search for them. Who should be tasked with this impossible job?