Why don't you race - honest?

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by rognvald

I've always found that "independent" people always make the best team members since they use their brains to work for a common goal and are not susceptible to group thinking. Of course, one cannot deny a heavy dose of Celtic/Viking genes can make intercourse challenging, at times, but it is well worth the effort. It is a shame, in my opinion, that much of the world today is imbued with a group thinking mentality. We're it not for independent, free-thinkers, we would still be making a living as small brained hominids on the African Savannah. Good luck and safe sailing. I vote for #1.

Comments like these make me think you believe that race is the primary determinate of human traits and capacities. Interesting to note that Nordic countries have very high rates of alcoholism and depression. Do you think that is genetic also?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Comments like these make me think you believe that race is the primary determinate of human traits and capacities. Interesting to note that Nordic countries have very high rates of alcoholism and depression. Do you think that is genetic also?

Naah...!!!
That's simply..
'Damn..!! we're snowed in..'
'No Worries Mon.. get the Booze n Food out.. '
and then..

'Baylocks.. we're outa Booze.. And snowed in.. '

[bill352]

Originally Posted by Interloper

Both threads, here and at the sailing forum, are winding down - here's what it looks like so far. It appears cruisers and racers both understand why 95% of sailors choose NOT to race their boats.

Once the thread loses steam altogether I will update and share all the comments & suggestions with my local group if they're interested, but here's a brief "key" to the categories.

And thanks again, your help is much appreciated.

Interloper - not only do I wish you well in this project, I also want to nominate you for an "OP of the Year" award. You asked a question, listened to the answers, correlated the data, and shared it with the rest of us. Thank you and well done!

[pcmm]

I don't race because to me racing isn't sailing. I sail because to me it represents freedom, escape and challenge all at the same time. Going around a race course while trying to not bump into a bunch of very expensive boats just doesn't sound like fun to me.

I'm out there to "decouple" from all that is society. When the diesel gets turned off and nature is powering my vessel, that to me is the ultimate "rush", Its escapism and total control at the same time. When I'm on the water sailing I feel free of societies expectations, guide lines and rules. I'm on my own without the "chatter" that is life. I can finally slow down and think (or not) as I please. I solve the problems in front of me and though they have no impact on anything outside of the 41' circle that is my boat I finally feel satisfaction in my accomplishments!

that's why I don't race!

[30yearslater]

Originally Posted by pcmm

I don't race because to me racing isn't sailing. I sail because to me it represents freedom, escape and challenge all at the same time. Going around a race course while trying to not bump into a bunch of very expensive boats just doesn't sound like fun to me.

I'm out there to "decouple" from all that is society. When the diesel gets turned off and nature is powering my vessel, that to me is the ultimate "rush", Its escapism and total control at the same time. When I'm on the water sailing I feel free of societies expectations, guide lines and rules. I'm on my own without the "chatter" that is life. I can finally slow down and think (or not) as I please. I solve the problems in front of me and though they have no impact on anything outside of the 41' circle that is my boat I finally feel satisfaction in my accomplishments!

that's why I don't race!

Brilliant! I can engage in competition with my fellow humans on the road, at work, grocery store line and everywhere else. When I leave the shore
the cooperation begins between the boat, crew, nature. Free of the constant challenges of life ashore.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Comments like these make me think you believe that race is the primary determinate of human traits and capacities. Interesting to note that Nordic countries have very high rates of alcoholism and depression. Do you think that is genetic also?

D,
Not quite . . . DNA is the primary determinate of human traits and capacities.Race/Culture is the soil in which they germinate which determine in what ways they express themselves. High rates of alcoholism and depression are by-products of thousands(if not longer) of years of the effects of culture on the human organism as in the case of many North European people who spent 6 months or more of their lives telling stories, drinking and dealing with the brutal northern Winters. Many North Europeans have a higher tolerance to alcohol than many cultures in the South. These are well-established concepts that have been honed by evolutionary biologists since the late 19th century and are part of evolutionary science/literature today. However, my remarks were not intended as a discourse on evolutionary biology/ DNA but rather as a light-hearted jest to our very Celtic and probably Viking respondent Mr. O'Reilly. I hope that explains it. Good luck and safe sailing. P.S. May I recommend a great book by Brian Sykes, professor at Oxford University, called "The Seven Daughters of Eve" that traces the lineages of Man through matrilineal DNA which represents the existing populations of Man today that evolved from tne original conceptual Eve(not biblical).

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I thought he was asking for honesty.. can't get more honest than that.. why dress it up with flowery bull doo..

Hello boatman61, I agree the OP is asking for honesty and I am not speaking on behalf of the OP however, I believe he is trying to revive a racing program and is looking for reasons why some don't race. He has provided some examples when looked at are tangible reasons that can be discussed. Purely saying "I don't want to" provides no related input.

Just my opinion

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by mottseng

Hello boatman61, I agree the OP is asking for honesty and I am not speaking on behalf of the OP however, I believe he is trying to revive a racing program and is looking for reasons why some don't race. He has provided some examples when looked at are tangible reasons that can be discussed. Purely saying "I don't want to" provides no related input.

Just my opinion

The biggest knock against the racing community ( from the rest of our perspectives) is their own image. They are often perceived as rude, arrogant, bossy and willing to risk damage and injury to win a beer can race! Too often I've seen then setup their course right across the entrances to harbours, challenge ferries for right of way, and simply act like jerks.

I know way gross over generalization, but that's the image out there of them.

[Interloper]

Originally Posted by bill352

Interloper - not only do I wish you well in this project, I also want to nominate you for an "OP of the Year" award. You asked a question, listened to the answers, correlated the data, and shared it with the rest of us. Thank you and well done!

You're far too kind. The value in this thread is in all the responses, and what I am learning or reinforcing from it, I am very grateful.

As forums go, this is a very nice bunch of people. Like I told many people here privately, I enjoy racing, cruising, day sailing and 'just messing about in boats' - but maybe I should cruise more and race less.

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by pcmm

The biggest knock against the racing community ( from the rest of our perspectives) is their own image. They are often perceived as rude, arrogant, bossy and willing to risk damage and injury to win a beer can race! Too often I've seen then setup their course right across the entrances to harbours, challenge ferries for right of way, and simply act like jerks.

I know way gross over generalization, but that's the image out there of them.

This is the first time hearing of this bad image. I race two days a week for the past 5 years over the summer and can say that none of the above applies. On the contrary none of the racers are rude, arrogant, bossy and are not willing to damage or cause injury. Our race courses are always set up far away from the harbour entrance and do not interfere with any other boating traffic.

I am sad to hear your opinion. If you are ever in Ontario would love to take you racing or anyone for that matter.

The OP is trying to revive racing in his community and is looking for some viable reasons why some shy away from it. It is a great way to learn boat handling.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by mottseng

This is the first time hearing of this bad image. I race two days a week for the past 5 years over the summer and can say that none of the above applies. On the contrary none of the racers are rude, arrogant, bossy and are not willing to damage or cause injury. Our race courses are always set up far away from the harbour entrance and do not interfere with any other boating traffic.

I am sad to hear your opinion. If you are ever in Ontario would love to take you racing or anyone for that matter.

The OP is trying to revive racing in his community and is looking for some viable reasons why some shy away from it. It is a great way to learn boat handling.

Ontario is where I sail and where this rep exists. Worst is Toronto harbor! I've lost count of the number of times I've seen races set up right in front of the entrance to Center Island marina, The number of times I've seen boats challenge the island ferries. believe me. It's not just me talk to cruising sailors and you'll get this feed back also.

Though I do agree Racing does accelerate your skills in boat handling, sail handling etc.

[derfy]

Great idea for thread.

I cruise and race ... and have done a fair amount of both and still race pretty regularly.

Biggest Barriers to racing?
- getting willing and able crew on a regular basis

Biggest Barriers to getting willing and able crew?
- skippers who are jerks

It's on us, the skippers, to make it fun and make people want to come back.
It can be serious fun, but I found there is very little forgiveness then a
skipper loses his cool. The minute it stops being fun, find out why, and fix it fast. Get the crew involved and give responsibility and recognition. Never
forget they are contributing their time, energy, and best efforts to make you
successful, and are not about to keep doing that for a jerk.

It's really about leadership on the boat, and also within the fleet.

Sailing against skippers who are jerks is no fun for anybody, either. Some of these guys act like this stuff is ... well ... important. They get this sense of self-significance that is beyond all belief. They use racing as an outlet for all their personal life frustrations ... bossing around people and bitching about problems.

I have seen it and so have you. You have to deal with these guys.

My two cents worth.

[30yearslater]

Here is a case from last year's Lake Ontario 300. For the past two years I have enjoyed watching the mob sail past the Pt. Breeze area. This year the winds were so light (Less than 1 knot) that I started the engine and headed in. A 'racer' was approaching from the west at 5.5 knots. Hmmm, was this a racer or someone enjoying an evening 'sail'? Arriving home I pulled up the race tracker and identified the only other boat in the area that was indeed in the race. While every other boat was struggling to make 1 to 2 knots including O Canada how was he managing 5.5 on a windless evening. What was sure to be a miracle at the same time I entered the harbor his speed went down to 1 knot. Amazing that from the time I started my engine to the time I cleared the lake his speed was incredulous. Simple explanation: he was using my engine noise to mask his own. Win at all costs.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Comments like these make me think you believe that race is the primary determinate of human traits and capacities. Interesting to note that Nordic countries have very high rates of alcoholism and depression. Do you think that is genetic also?

Hmmm, could you cite your source for this? The data I can easily find does not support either assertion. In fact the most current research on depression I could find states (Web MD summary statement):

"Depression rates around the world vary according to a nation's affluence, with the highest income countries -- including the U.S. -- reporting the highest levels of depression, a study shows.”

The ranking of least to most depressed affluent countries are:

1. Japan: 6.6 percent
2. Germany: 9.9 percent
3. Italy: 9.9 percent
4. Israel: 10.2 percent
5. Spain: 10.6 percent
6. Belgium: 14.1 percent
7. New Zealand: 17.8 percent
8. Netherlands: 17.9 percent
9. United States: 19.2 percent
10. France: 21 percent

And from the actual paper:

On one level, it seems counterintuitive that people in high-income countries should experience more stress than those in low- to middle-income countries. However, it has been suggested that depression is to some extent an illness of affluence. A related argument is that income inequality, which is for the most part greater in high than low- to middle-income countries, promotes a wide variety of chronic conditions that includes depression.

As for alcoholism, it’s harder to find clear data on this. Not everyone seems to agree on the diagnosis of alcoholism. If you look at rates (combined WHO and OECD data, nicely organized in wikipedia) of alcohol consumption per capita the first nordic country to crack the list is Finland at 16th. France is 18th, Australia 19th and Ireland comes in at 21st. Canada comes in at 40th and the US is down at 48th.

So, I’m not sure where your assertion comes from.

Originally Posted by rognvald

... However, my remarks were not intended as a discourse on evolutionary biology/ DNA but rather as a light-hearted jest to our very Celtic and probably Viking respondent Mr. O'Reilly. I hope that explains it.

Exactly. I thought we were having a good guffaw on this. Me and my Celtic genes will be proud to drink any one of you under the table

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by mottseng

This is the first time hearing of this bad image. I race two days a week for the past 5 years over the summer and can say that none of the above applies. On the contrary none of the racers are rude, arrogant, bossy and are not willing to damage or cause injury. Our race courses are always set up far away from the harbour entrance and do not interfere with any other boating traffic.

I am sad to hear your opinion. If you are ever in Ontario would love to take you racing or anyone for that matter.

The OP is trying to revive racing in his community and is looking for some viable reasons why some shy away from it. It is a great way to learn boat handling.

You just happen to be with a good group of racers and smart boat committee folks

When you have 20 plus boats or so on or near any start/finish line many times there will be a few shouts

I haven't raced in a while but over the summer there was a bay race here. It was set up on the race side of the shipping channel to avoid interfering with shipping traffic

A pilot (on a container ship) did have to contact the Norfolk Police, who were monitoring the start because it was still close to the shipping channel, because some over zealous racer thought he might be late for the start and was planning to cross to close in front of the container ship.

The pilot hailed him at least three times then contacted the police boat with it's twin 225 hp outboards to divert him

https://www.google.com/search?q=norf...i5b1ijFnXzM%3A