Why I Don't Like Fin Keels

[SaltyMonkey]

Beautiful interior there. A doodle boat! Over my top$ given the day gig is supposed to end at EOY. I actually have a Maryland and Virginia folder in my New Life directory with listings in your area. May head out that way in October for a home visit and the boat show.

Doodles

Heres one in Mexico

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1441&url=

Lots of beautiful boats available down there...

[zeehag]

smb--you realllly know how to get a girl's heart to beating and her silly face a droolin...wow cool boat---both..LOL...

so, smb, you have all the goood info--now you have to go sailing a lot to catch up --have to feel the boat so you know what you want to throw away your hard earned money on...

[SaltyMonkey]

Thanks Zee. Gonna go keel drooling ASAP...just no wood decks!

[svrodeorm]

It's not so much about fin keels falling off for me...

It's about grounding at hull speed. 75% of fin keelers either sink, or get severely damaged.

I've seen this only toooo often, talk to any yard or boat builder around Scandinavian waters. The waters are strewn with skerries, rocks and submerged rocks. we use to say: 'there are two kind of sailors, those who have run aground, and those who hasn't yet don so'.

Regarding sailing away from rough weather due to a 'fast boat'. Its' about religion, right? every one is entitled to a faith for sure.

Personally I have a real hard time figuring how those people trying to outsail bad weather really do it??

Let's assume one of those 'fast' boats does 12 knots and the slow boat makes 6. I mean a really fast boat. The differnece in mileage would be around 12-6x24 hours = 144 miles more in a day.

That is fast, by all means.... now, how fast does a lw pressure system typically travel? 4-5 days over the North Atlantic seems a common speed for these weather systems. Let me think, the Atlantic is somethig like 2500 miles wide. (to simplify this math, let's forget that the lows usually cross pretty much diagonally over the pond) So, 2500 miles divided by 5 days makes 500 miles in a day or a speed of 24 knots.

Hmm, I wonder how likely it is to be fast enough to 'sneak away' from it??


Can anyone explain to me how this is supposed to be performed?

Is it done in the real world and not just by mega-multihulls and VOR boats?

[SaltyMonkey]

svrodeorm - storms moving into the north atlantic from the lower atlantic drop intensity but pick up speed for sure. However, in the fast boat favour, lower atlantic and tropics, the storms move slower and can almost stall, but they are more intense. So, depends where you sail IMHO. If you are going the coconut/milk run circumnav, fast boat has an advantage I think.

Problemo when you want an all around sailer...say, lower lat circumnavigation that goes south from Australia around Cape Hope. What then? (forget the horn..make the equation easy).

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Doodles

From Ronnie's website:



Why disable it? Would it have be enabled for the trip back?

Probably required by the race rules. Of course, the trip home would be a different story.

[rtbates]

Originally Posted by Pblais

I don't get the point of the post?

Ever heard of a full keel falling off ????????????????????????????????????
Me either

[zeehag]

encapsulated fins dont fall off either...

[Pblais]

Hmm, I wonder how likely it is to be fast enough to 'sneak away' from it??

A "head start" is the equalizer in any weather situation. With 4 days head start the idea is to not be there. This is where the slow boat wins every time - leave early! Airplanes run away from large storms not boats. The concept that a faster boat has an advantage in a quick storm getaway is not very solid. The faster boat "advantage" strategy already has a skipper that can't tell when it's time to get out of the way. It is the same logic as advanced swim training can beat a hungry shark to shore.

I don't see the keel argument as being all that important. A smart skipper uses skill and knowledge to compensate the capabilities of any boat they sail. No boat is fast enough or unsinkable. All boats have limits. The Titanic comes to mind and her sister ship didn't fair better. Both were considered quite fast and unsinkable. Both lie on the bottom.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by svrodeorm

Personally I have a real hard time figuring how those people trying to outsail bad weather really do it??


Can anyone explain to me how this is supposed to be performed?

Is it done in the real world and not just by mega-multihulls and VOR boats?

Not to Hi-jack the thread, but just to explain a little..
Hi winds and weather are created by low perasure area.. Devide your low preasure into 4 parts.. North, south, east, and west, In the Northern Hemispher, the low preasure area tracks with lower winds circling it in a counter-clockwise manner.. on the east side of the presure area, the winds build as they travel from from south to north throu the east area, and continue to build in the north but as the circling winds fall on the west side of the low preasure ared, they drop heavy showers prior to the high preasure build behind it, and drop in speeds.. they then build again in the southeast conor and start the cycle all over again...
There is a sweet spot in the south to south west coner of the low.. you find the sweet spot, and you'll have fair sailing.. strong but fair..
Simple rules to understand the weather..
Stand with your back to the lower wind and if the upper wind or clouds come from the left hand, then the weather will normally deteriorate.
Stand with your back to the lower wind and the upper winds or clouds come from the right, the weather will normally inprove...
I didnt say to OUTRUN the storm.. just find the less likely place to get your but kicked in a storm..

[SaltyMonkey]

Geez: If there are two flippant arguments that I get tired of hearing over and over are:

1) its the skipper, not the boat...which is like saying its your right foot not your left.

2) References to the Titanic, which had clear design and manufacturing flaws.

I believe, a fast fin keel boat and significant information (such as WEFAX and GRIB) can be made to divert itself with somewhat knowledgeable when the weather is in an area that is relatively predictable, slow, and stable. I would not want to have bets on higher fast moving lats or in off seasons.

Keel bolts are the devil ::

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

I didnt say to OUTRUN the storm.. just find the less likely place to get your but kicked in a storm..

Exactly...and I think its easier to do mid-low lats where its relatively slow and events are more predictable.

I should just get a Beneteau and GO do it just to have the challenge and get over my own aversions and prove others wrong.

[zeehag]

omg you are gonna get an "oil canning bayliner"!!!! why not get a formosa and sail under jib and jigger off into the sunset never even feeling the effects of the damn storm!!!!
things we felt hard in the performance cruiser we sailed in the gulf for a near year are those things these big bruisers are made to take. we went thru t storms--wow!! what a rush!! the sailing is awesome!!! the storms would overtake us and then blow our doors off then speed onward and we got a 10kt boost on our day!!
only time we were willing to reduce sail was when we were doing this at 0300..we were pooped another time because the freeboard was 3 1/2 ft and the seas were 8 ft--formosa would tolerate that nicely--the sea woulda slapped the quarter and i woulda been still dry!!! so i appreciate my formosa as a cruiser over a fleet footed performer. also i have more storage spaces than many cruisers today have.

but we never tried to outrun th estorms--isnt possible--the storms ar efast--we are 7 kt hullspeed.....aint no way to outrun them. but sailing them--that is another thing.....is fun!! i would never do that in a front with anticipated severe storm cells and hurrycames. both of those are for hiding from. big time.

[svrodeorm]

@randyonr3

that's correct, and old knowledge, always trying to be at the 'navigable side of a storm.

Not so easy in practical life in this part of the world though due to the size of the lows. In the Carib for instance I guess the lows are smaller but fierce.

this link might bring some light to this...


BBC Weather | Atlantic

even if right now, the scene is dominated by a high pressure system. Check this link out reularly the net month or so...

Of course it all depends on where one is cruising...

[SaltyMonkey]

formosa's scare me for other reasons

slow slow slow the man down...methinks Capt cook would go faster!

Flat decks going turtle may not unturtle!

Wooden decks leak and rot and are a PITA (hmmm...i could say that about bowsprits too).

Heres a nice one

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=1704&url=

Or maybe I am thinking Vagabond

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=37944&url=