Why people may not help you!

[meatservo]

Why? If it is contrary to your Paradigm you wouldn't accept it anyway...



meatservo

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I encourage you to look at the actual research. The TED talk was ripe with factors you rightly criticize, and I hesitated to link to it b/c of that. It was a 15 minute summary of an extensive line of research which he references at the time marks I indicated. Since my efforts to provide written research seems to fall on deaf ears, I thought this was a different way to get people to look at the topic. The actual research tries to include and account for the issues you raise (and many, many more).

My socialist sword is safely sheathed. This is not about … well, I don’t really know what you mean by that statement . I’m trying to point out a factor of human behaviour which researchers have identified in repeated experiments. Like so much of this research, it is revealing things about human nature which appears to contradict the common wisdom, which is why I find it so interesting. The whole “predictably irrational” line of research is revealing plenty about who we actually are — as opposed to who we think we are.

From my rather extensive reading in this exploding area of human behavioural research, this relationship to wealth and compassion appears to be quite a robust experimental finding. I would be very interested to read credible research which shows different results of these kinds of human behavioural questions.

We prefer to experience mankind on a one to one basis, never making bigoted generalizations along the journey. That's what works for us.

[meatservo]

Could not have said it any better!


Categorize the population and you end up with the "hyphen Americans, assimilate and be a good citizen no matter what your social status...




meatservo

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by meatservo

Why? If it is contrary to your Paradigm you wouldn't accept it anyway...

If this is directed to me, it’s a pretty arrogant and insulting thing to say. We are all biased, but my paradigm, as you put it, does not depend on whether the wealthy are less compassionate. The subject came up in the thread of this discussion (not by me). I am aware of the research on the subject, so followed up with references.

I infer from your comment that you won’t risk your own paradigm by actually taking the time to read and consider some of the research.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We prefer to experience mankind on a one to one basis, never making bigoted generalizations along the journey. That's what works for us.

Yup … the hell with all those PhD brainiacs who actually try to look at these questions critically. 'My uncle Bob is rich AND a nice guy. Ipso facto, all these researchers are biased, bigoted, ignorant and idiotic' .

I feel like I’ve stumbled into a climate change thread. Why are you people so afraid to even look at the research?

[boatman61]

Funny enough I've just watched a program on BBC World where they reckoned us Baby Boomers are taking more than our fair share.. seems because many bought their homes back in the 70's when they cost between £3500-£10000 for a 2-3 bed home and today those same houses are worth between £450,000 and 1 million and we are on retirement pensions at 65.. we are depriving the poor Millennials who leave education with £35000+ debts subjecting them to a lifetime tied into a debt they're unlikely to pay off in their lifetime and house's they cannot afford to buy.
Maybe they should skew their thinking around and realise.. they allowed it to happen through their own complacency.. they could not be bothered to vote and felt to educated to do what us 'blue collar workers' did in the 60's and 70's which was to fight for our rights and freedoms.
Instead they got into the 'Trendy Set'.. too good for manual labour.. that's what immigrants are for.. and prone to self obsession and shallow thinking which has allowed the Powers that be to roll right over them with first of all 'Short Term Contracts' and over the last 10 years the steady increase of Zero Hours Contracts'..
But hey..!! its all our fault that they've basically allowed themselves to be devolved back to a state of near serfdom..

I worked with the attitude that employment is a two way contract.. I have this weird conviction that for an employer to become rich and successful he needs me.. or someone like me.. as much as I need him.. and if we work for the benefit of each other we can both succeed in our respective ambitions.. if he abused that contract then I either terminated the contract or.. I/we held a go slow or withdrew labour till a fair compromise was reached.. we did not just roll over the way folks have for the last 25+yrs.
You sleep in the bed you make.. what's that old saying about someone helping those who help themselves..??
Yeah.. I know.. weird ideas for a conservative

[Pelagic]

Mike, how do you accurately measure and compare Charity or Kindness amongst groups of different wealth, political and social environment or religious Tennant's?

If the poorer group has NO disposable income, how is that weighted?

Is a psychology kindness worth less than a financial one?

Do kindnesses to children equate equally to kindnesses to adults?

Are we equally measured or is there biased as Ken suggests.

Many invoke superstitious or karma beliefs, that charities will be rewarded?

Does that carry more or less weight in your analysis ?

Like Ken, I prefer One on One choices without fanfare or social Justification

[Tayana42]

MIke, you have my sympathy but I think you are talking to a wall. Stupidity is it's own reward.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Mike, how do you accurately measure and compare Charity or Kindness amongst groups of different wealth, political and social environment or religious Tennant's?

All I can say is, read the actual research. Like you, these folks are kinda smart. They may actually have considered your questions. To dismiss it out of hand seems an awfully large sword to swing .

BTW, it’s not my analysis. It’s the researchers I keep pointing to (why is this so difficult???). If I tell you Paris is full of french speakers, that’s not my analysis since I’ve never been there. I’ve read credible reports of this fact. I’ve read credible research that dares to look at human nature and try and understand it.

Look, I’m sorry this seems to distress some of you. I’m sure you and yours are all paradigms of generosity and kindness, and no one you know could possibly be like the people in these experiments. But for the rest of humanity that these apply to, it is fascinating indeed to challenge what we think consider ‘self-evident truths.'

[boatman61]

I should add.. I've never felt grateful to have a job.. its always been something I've earned through my ability to out perform other applicants.. or offer a better service in the times I've been self employed.
One could say I've always been an independent contractor.

PS; With a little help from my friends..

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

MIke, you have my sympathy but I think you are talking to a wall. Stupidity is it's own reward.

I suggest it is quite Stupid to think l/we, do not consider Mike's well researched opinions.

Boatie's analysis personally rings true to me.

A lot if independent thinking sailors here, who have always thought of their employment as a two way street
They have not sold their right to quit, because of consumer debt and always maintained their freedom mindset.

A yacht probably represents the stupidest investment we can ever make.

But that does not mean we are stupid or selfish in using that disposable income to broaden our horizons and those we care for

If you disagree, then it is because your perspective is very narrow.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

....... But for the rest of humanity that these apply to, it is fascinating indeed to challenge what we think consider ‘self-evident truths.'

Mike, I think we agree more than you think and the socialist sword was not directed at you.

I have never pretended to be anything other than selfish (even to justify the acts of kindness)

I do read a great deal of research from Washington based think tanks on all economic and social issues..... The one consistent debate is the accuracy of the data, based on the researchers published conclusion.

Ever since Obama highlighted yacht owners as the cause of economic plight and suffering amongst the masses, I watch this argument and "self evident truth" with suspicion.

Always open for a remedy.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If this is directed to me, it’s a pretty arrogant and insulting thing to say. We are all biased, but my paradigm, as you put it, does not depend on whether the wealthy are less compassionate. The subject came up in the thread of this discussion (not by me). I am aware of the research on the subject, so followed up with references.

I infer from your comment that you won’t risk your own paradigm by actually taking the time to read and consider some of the research.



Yup … the hell with all those PhD brainiacs who actually try to look at these questions critically. 'My uncle Bob is rich AND a nice guy. Ipso facto, all these researchers are biased, bigoted, ignorant and idiotic' .

I feel like I’ve stumbled into a climate change thread. Why are you people so afraid to even look at the research?

Hi Mike, I don't think we are all afraid to look at the research. But im one that dosent except research as gospel.

As someone that failed school at 15 then became a motor mechanic until putting himself back through school and then on to university (as an adult) I sometimes feel I have a unique perspective (maybe) when it comes to higher education. All though I didn't enrol in a social science degree specifically ,there was several subjects like sociology that I did do and enjoyed. Something that became quite apparent to me being an older student and not coming from a privledged background was that most students that attended these subjects were very biased and left leaning in their views, this often distorted healthy debate and I believe influenced conclusions they came up with in regards to various research topics.

There are so many variables that are often not taken into account for various reasons eg. the cars that didn't stop for pedestrians, what age were the driver's? male or female?
The social sciences tend to attract very liberal thinking people, there is a lack of objectivity right from the start IMHO.

Bloodletting was backed by the scientific community for years, but they were in correct.

This is obviously a subject or area that you feel strongly about but I personally disagree with such generalization as the one put forward in that presentation. And by not just accepting the "research"'dosent make me ignorant, and by having some money dosent make me non compassionate.

Your posts are always great contributions, don't let opposing views like mine stop them coming.


Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

MIke, you have my sympathy but I think you are talking to a wall. Stupidity is it's own reward.

Thats just offensive. Its a healthy discussion let's do our best to keep it that way.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yup … the hell with all those PhD brainiacs who actually try to look at these questions critically. 'My uncle Bob is rich AND a nice guy. Ipso facto, all these researchers are biased, bigoted, ignorant and idiotic' .

I feel like I’ve stumbled into a climate change thread. Why are you people so afraid to even look at the research?

Do you always look at the world through red tinted glasses? Does everything including being nice to other people need to have some sort of political dogma attached?

Here's the difference between us...

My wife and I view everyone we meet as being the same until they prove otherwise... black, brown, white, young, old, gay, straight, rich, poor or somewhere in between, it doesn't matter to us. Everyone gets a chance and a helping hand if needed. We don't give a damn about any left wing moonbat research.

But to you and your "PhD (Pile it high and Deeper) brainiac" friends.... you guys come to the first encounter with pre-conceived bigoted bias where nobody gets a fair chance. You guys see the fellow in the big boat or fancy car and already have him all figured out before you even meet. Of course they're not going to help you when you get into trouble if you're looking down your noses at them with a look of distain on you face.

Your research is rubbish research.

[Pelagic]

Mike....if you go thru the Archives of CSIS you will find a variety of discussions on this topic

They normally publish just the most relevant and up to date submissions each week.

https://www.csis.org/topics