Why people may not help you!

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

MIke, you have my sympathy but I think you are talking to a wall. Stupidity is it's own reward.

First hand experience? You sure made your point by resorting to name calling, well done!!!!!

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

All I can say is, read the actual research. Like you, these folks are kinda smart. They may actually have considered your questions. To dismiss it out of hand seems an awfully large sword to swing .

BTW, it’s not my analysis. It’s the researchers I keep pointing to (why is this so difficult???).

School teachers are great, deal with a lot of beaurocracy with perseverance.
And, I agree your "brainiac PhD's" are kinda smart - most make a reasonably secure living without ever leaving the security of school.

However, they are not entrepreneurs and I suspect their interpretation of wealth and generosity would be quite different from the employing businessman who puts his own time and money on the line to keep a tax paying, people employing business alive.

[Cap Erict3]

Really don't have a dog in the rich vs poor fight. I know it has been my pleasure to assist a few folks in need. I will be forever grateful to those that have helped me and mine.

I would like to implore those that have more than they need to assist some of those that are on desperate times. You can't take it with you and leaving your children everything they will ever need may not be doing them a real favor.

[boatman61]

And here we have the Classic Blame Game playing out that is thrust on us by the Political class and the media who's polls and research results are shaped by the way they artfully phrase their questions..
I cannot speak for other countries like the USA etc however..
Last night we.. the Baby Boomers were to blame for the state of the Education system and the fact that while it was free for us, they have to pay..
A housing crisis that has private property beyond the reach of all but the lucky ones with parental assistance.. nothing to do with no credible building program.. no its the selfish old folks who sweated blood for 25+yrs to buy and overpriced pile of brick.. and want to keep living in it.
A failing and over pressed Health Service because apparently us old fogies are eating away the resources..
A crumbling infrastructure that's affects road and rail.. Blah Blah Blah..
No one blames the Governments past and present for the billions wasted in failed projects and State contracts handed out to cronies in the 'Club'..
No one blames them for the trillions wasted in foreign adventures in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and all the other pointless little wars we waged around the world under the False Flag of National Security since WW2.. while the half dozen people who own the worlds media stoke the hate and fear for their own agenda and gain..
Look at us on here.. having a pop at each other just because some University tosspot or other is being paid by someone to produce research data which suits their (the gods on the hill) agenda which is to sow discourse and prevent joined up thinking by the masses, and how well it is working..
And we take the bait every bludi time..
SH$TE... They're right.. It is Our Bludi Fault..

[boatman61]

Oh.. and the other reason the young are suffering today is we paid less taxes than they have to bear today..
Now that's kinda strange to me as I seem to remember 35%+ of my weekly income went on income tax and National Insurance.. and during the '70's and the 'Three Day Week' many of us found that we were in fact a few pounds a week better off working the 3 days.. basically the other two days worked in a normal 5 day week was to pay the taxes and NI..
But.. its nothing to do with gross mismanagement at the top.. its all because I'm selfish and won't help the next generations..
Guess I should write to Theresa May and ask her to keep my 500euro/mth State Pension and give the youngsters a break.. or use it to spend on another war..

[Sea Dreaming]

Boaty, in the US politicians normally bear the brunt of blame but few recall they voted for the very same politicians that have brought policy that has undermined the lives of citizens. The people just keep voting for the same old $#!t and complaining about the out come.

[rognvald]

"Rockefeller and Carnegie were egotists. First Rockefeller Center and Carnegie Hall. The endowments came later when they had nothing else to do with the wealth attained off the backs of the worker. An egotistic attempt at immortality." Cadence

Cadence,
If ego built Rockefeller and Carnegie Hall, I am an advocate of ego. If endowments came when they had "nothing else to do with the wealth," then I am an advocate of the use of "old" money as a source for public good. If wealth came "off the back of the worker," I am an advocate of this system because it creates income and opportunity for those who performed the work.
Good luck and safe sailing.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

I can't help but wonder if the tax deductibility of the trusts were the major motivation, a la Donald T.

Bob,
See my post #217. Good luck and safe sailing.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Sea Dreaming

Boaty, in the US politicians normally bear the brunt of blame but few recall they voted for the very same politicians that have brought policy that has undermined the lives of citizens. The people just keep voting for the same old $#!t and complaining about the out come.

Ahh..!!! Ignore me.. I'm just having a pop at the 'Me.. MEeee!!!' generation..
They say they don't want Brexit but were to busy with their Play Stations to vote..
Some Brits like Weavis say.. you've Portuguese Residency why pay for your treatments out off your pocket when you can transfer your NHS to Portugal..???
Simple..!! I saw Brexit coming over 5yrs ago and don't want the ******** that's going to be involved in switching back..
But you guys in the States have either broken the mould with 'The Donald'.. or.. you've legitimised Corporate Government.. only time will tell...

[Pelagic]

I blame it on guys like Weavis!
They got us addicted to coffee!

[transmitterdan]

I think I read somewhere that results in 90% of peer reviewed studies in psychology were not reproducible. In other science disciplines it isn't as bad as 90% but far from 0%.

The lesson I took from that is to question every "study result" against my own experience. My own experience says that helpfulness to others is completely uncorrelated with the wealth of the person on either side of the bargain. I'm willing to bet I could commission a study by preeminent PhDs that would confirm my experience. However, I am too poor to afford such a study. Anybody here willing to help me out?

[robert sailor]

It's always a mental battle but in the big picture business is all about making money and a busnessmans wet dream is a monopoly. ..Bill Gates had a taste of it! Business could care less about the sick or poor, unless you run a USA hospital. Government has to be the referee and redistribute wealth or it will all end up with just the chosen few. Without all the brained deep thinkers we would not have the medical marvels or the great scientific discoveries we have and most of this has come from either government or industry receiving subsidies from government. There are all sorts of takes on this from the extremely pro business countries like the USA to countries that are more social thinkers like Sweden or Norway. I guess what I'm trying to say is you need brainy people that are not businessmen and you need businessmen that are not brainy people.

[Island Time O25]

I think there is some psychological distancing which comes with increased wealth. And definitely there is some (much?) such distancing which comes if one is born into wealth. After all how many people who became wealthy during their lifetimes intentionally continue to reside in their old neighborhoods? Very few indeed and they are rare exceptions rather than the rule. To argue otherwise just flies in the face of the obvious.

And I also think that empathy starts or should start at home. I am much more inclined to help and risk my boat for 11 year old kid whose parent's did not watch over him than some drunk/wasted sob who put himself in his predicament. That's just human nature IMO, irrespective of one's wealth or status. And as a corollary to this idea the wealthier individuals perhaps are more rational than their poor cousins (one of the reasons they got to be wealthier in the first place) and as such tend to dwell on these underlying reasons for one's distress more before risking their own lives and limb and property for others.

BTW I do have a profession which is perceived as "wealthy" but have chosen in my life not to slave in it 24/7, which is now required to obtain that "wealthy" income in it. So I think I can (or I hope I can) to see this issue from both sides. ))

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

It's always a mental battle but in the big picture business is all about making money and a busnessmans wet dream is a monopoly. ..Bill Gates had a taste of it! Business could care less about the sick or poor, unless you run a USA hospital. Government has to be the referee and redistribute wealth or it will all end up with just the chosen few. Without all the brained deep thinkers we would not have the medical marvels or the great scientific discoveries we have and most of this has come from either government or industry receiving subsidies from government. There are all sorts of takes on this from the extremely pro business countries like the USA to countries that are more social thinkers like Sweden or Norway. I guess what I'm trying to say is you need brainy people that are not businessmen and you need businessmen that are not brainy people.

That's why in the beginning of the 2016 presidential race I thought that Trump/Sanders ticket would have been a perfect answer to the political morass of the past 30-40 years.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I think there is some psychological distancing which comes with increased wealth. And definitely there is some (much?) such distancing which comes if one is born into wealth. After all how many people who became wealthy during their lifetimes intentionally continue to reside in their old neighborhoods? Very few indeed and they are rare exceptions rather than the rule. To argue otherwise just flies in the face of the obvious.

And I also think that empathy starts or should start at home. I am much more inclined to help and risk my boat for 11 year old kid whose parent's did not watch over him than some drunk/wasted sob who put himself in his predicament. That's just human nature IMO, irrespective of one's wealth or status. And as a corollary to this idea the wealthier individuals perhaps are more rational than their poor cousins (one of the reasons they got to be wealthier in the first place) and as such tend to dwell on these underlying reasons for one's distress more before risking their own lives and limb and property for others.

I kinda dispute this analogy about wealth = rationality.. wealth accumulation is more of an addiction I feel.. like nicotine, alcohol or heroin when taken to the extreme.. always need that next fix.. or bigger hit..
I've earned very good money in the past which could have put me in a much higher bracket but I've never felt the need for that.. or ownership of property.
Not sure if its because having spent my first 15 odd years living in a country where true poverty exists in over 80% of the population, so what the West considers borderline poverty subconsciously for me stimulates a sense of comfortable living.. that and my addiction to constant change of environment and adventure.