Why people may not help you!

[Mike OReilly]

Well, ain’t this fun…

Lots of interesting and thoughtful comments, along with the standard head-in-the-sand BS from the same old folks. No need to comment on it all.

There is plenty to criticize regarding the research I reference, and I appreciate the thoughtful comments by many of you. Social and medical science is ripe with challenges, and research into human behaviour is even more problematic b/c we’re studying us. That said, the research I am referencing has been reproduced in various forms over hundreds of experiments right now. It appears to be a robust finding, which is why I find it so interesting. It may turn out to mean something else, but that doesn’t mean we should ignore it. It certainly agrees with the well established facts regarding in-group/out-group human dynamics that is well understood.

Some of you seem to take this personally. I don’t know how to say this more clearly than I have already done a number of times … this is generalized behavioural research looking at humans as a species. Individuals can differ from the norm in all species, from orangutans to army ants. And just like advertising works on people in general, but is unpredictable at the individual level, so too with the effects this research is highlighting.

These are tendencies of the group, not descriptions of each individual. So yes, we should all treat individuals as individuals. But we should also be aware that we are most often blind to our own biases. THIS is the principle finding of this genre of research. (And yes, this applies to me too. I understand… which is why I rely on science, and not just my limited and biased perspective).

[Cap Erict3]

Describing oneself as a Nurse Ratched pretty much defines how you feel you should/can treat others. It shows in the posts regularly.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Name one Freedom that was threatened.. then look behind the scenes at what created that 'Alleged Threat'...
I just happen not to be guiled by the bullcrap and propaganda that created many of these 'Adventures' to protect our Freedoms..
Now the Falkland's War was in my eye's justified (not in America's who wanted us to let them go to Argentina).. our Territory had been invaded and UK citizens were deprived of their freedoms.
But speaking as a former member of an armed service.. one's active participation in a war does not automatically make it a Just War..
Sorry..
PS; The UK military has not had a Draft system I believe since the end of WW2.. we are all 'Volunteers'.. and I'm grateful to my father for fighting behind Japanese lines to keep India free.. and the 'Empire'.

Boatie, was the old man a Chindit?

[salticrak]

Originally Posted by minaret

I am a Peace Corps brat, grew up in India, Arabia, and East Africa as a result. Never came to the Sates, my country of birth, till nine years old. I have never ever gotten over the way in which dirt poor third world people went about their lives, with a whole lot of joy and friendliness, when compared to the vast culture shock of arriving in the first world, where people just can't be bothered to even be pleasant to each other. People still think I'm strange because I greet everyone with a smile and often strike up conversations with total strangers (when possible). I don't need any studies, this concept was made extremely evident to me as a child. I spent a whole lot of time traveling with my father providing services for the poorest of the poor, and it was a real eye opener. Truly, you can't buy happiness! And compassion is a habit which grows stronger with use....

^ This.

[captain58sailin]

There is an interesting web site called Haverscope, which lists the income off of all the different black market enterprises in the world, also lists the current prices of AK 47s in different countries etc... The thing that I found interesting is that they listed the illegal drug market as a 3 billion dollar a year enterprise, while arms sales came in at 300 billion. Anyway, I'll be glad when spring rolls around again and I can go back offshore in pursuit of fish and not have to keep up with current events and be happy for the sunrise and sunset. If you get broke down or need a tow or help, just give me a shout and I'll do the best I can to lend a hand.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by minaret

Boatie, was the old man a Chindit?

Yes.. an officer in one of the Gurkha Regiments.. good guess..
Now I say this without meaning any offence but as a Brit I don't get this almost obligatory 'Thank you for your service' thing that you Americans do left, right and centre.. its just another job more or less.. could be something to do with our civilians being bombed as well or something..
Seems to have become fashionable in Westminster with the Politico's lately.. which is a bit rich since they create then stick us in the crap in the first place..
Guess it makes them feel cleaner..
PS; But.. the real reason I'm grateful to my father is that he survived.. so I could sit here at the keyboard and P$ss you all off...

[meatservo]

When someones says to me "Thank you for your service" 99% of the time they mean it and are being genuine. I have absolutely no problem with it.

I just reply, "Thanks for being the reason"...



meatservo

[boatman61]

I've no problem with it.. just don't get it when one see what happens to many after they've been used and abused..
Its like 'Have a nice day' at the checkout..

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by meatservo

When someones says to me "Thank you for your service" 99% of the time they mean it and are being genuine. I have absolutely no problem with it.

I just reply, "Thanks for being the reason"...



meatservo

It's a whole different part of sociology/psychology. I think, Boatie, in America, where returning Viet Nam draftees were vilified for their service for quite a while, some people thought that that was wrong, really unfair. Then, more and more PTSD sufferers were involved with violent crimes, and I think awareness shifted, and the general public realized those guys had had a bad deal. So, when someone said, "thank you for your service", they meant it, and saying it caught on as a custom, a meant-to-be-polite acknowledgement, of hardships endured for the benefit of civilians.

I'm old enough to remember the end of WWII, and my folks used to stop the car to pick up anyone in uniform who needed a ride. Soon after, a post war period of prosperity happened in the US, while England was still suffering, recovering from the War. A few years later, men in uniform were no longer looking for rides. However, there was a general sense that although everyone had paid a terrible price, that we had been on the side of "right."....and we did not know, nor realize how easy it could be to be manipulated by someone like "the little corporal" to a position of fear and hatred of others. America's a newish country, and not nearly as prone as Europeans to deep thinking about things political, imho.

Humans are susceptible, again, imho, to manipulation, and Americans have become less compassionate in their thinking, hence more selfish in their behavior. If you make the population concerned only about themselves (our normal animal orientation, possibly), then they do not work together for common goals, so it is a useful tool politically. Divide and conquer.



Ann

[Pelagic]

Thank you for your service

I do it all the time..[emoji39][emoji111]

[JPA Cate]

Mike OReilly suggests that we become aware of our own biases. Yes, I couldn't agree more, but I do think that is a goal we reach towards, but may never completely attain. Mostly we see the world through our own filter, a combination of personality and experience, and that has good and poor aspects.

It's a hard job, Mike. It takes fearful self searching, and not everyone's up to it.

Ann

[meatservo]

I was in my local watering hole watching football. There was a young guy in there with two artificial legs wearing shorts. We talked about the military and the election. I said to him, "A gratful nation appreciates your sacrifice."

He had no problem with it and in turn thanked me for my service...




meatservo

[meatservo]

Pelagic,

That's just wrong...

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

It's always a mental battle but in the big picture business is all about making money and a busnessmans wet dream is a monopoly. ..Bill Gates had a taste of it! Business could care less about the sick or poor, unless you run a USA hospital. Government has to be the referee and redistribute wealth or it will all end up with just the chosen few. Without all the brained deep thinkers we would not have the medical marvels or the great scientific discoveries we have and most of this has come from either government or industry receiving subsidies from government. There are all sorts of takes on this from the extremely pro business countries like the USA to countries that are more social thinkers like Sweden or Norway. I guess what I'm trying to say is you need brainy people that are not businessmen and you need businessmen that are not brainy people.

Business has a responsibility to make a profit but its more than just money. I sold my business because in the end for me it was only about making money. When I first started I would work minimum 12 hours a day, and loved every bit of creating and building the business, the rewards were much more than just monetary. Also I started with one casual employee and it now has 18-22 employees, how do you measure the impact that has on a country town?
Entrepreneurs and businesses build and create, let them do what they are meant to do, dont make employers or rich people the bad guys, get the regulations and complaining out of the way and let them run.
I think im retired permanently BUT if the environment changed and this negative tall poopy syndrome combined with less rules and regulations was to decrease combined with the right opportunity I'd go again, not for the money but for the creating and making.
Government doesn't create, entrepreneurs do.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Pelagic]

I agree Ann....there is irrefutable evidence that we all as a species have been conditioned to unconsciously view things in a biased manner.

From symmetrical features to triggered fight or flight responses.

Where I differ with the conclusions of Mike's TED is that if accepted as a generalization.... It does not take into account the affects of the formative years of an individual.

Those childhood experiences I believe, have a bigger influence.