Why people may not help you!

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Mike OReilly suggests that we become aware of our own biases. Yes, I couldn't agree more, but I do think that is a goal we reach towards, but may never completely attain. Mostly we see the world through our own filter, a combination of personality and experience, and that has good and poor aspects.

It's a hard job, Mike. It takes fearful self searching, and not everyone's up to it.

Ann

Hi Ann, absolutely BUT the level of Bias can differ, I would suggest Mike and Ken are at completely different ends of the spectrum (no offense guys, the forum needs both of you).
Mike is using research as a club to support what he needs or wants to believe ,and does not want to entertain the thought that maybe others have different views through experience which is a form of research in itself! we all do that to some extent but some invest more than other's.

I spent four weeks living onboard my old boat with the new owner helping him get comfortable with cruising. He was a very committed Bernie Sanders fan (really nice guy I should add) this led to some interesting discussions where I found us both batting for our team (not that I'm Americ an )But all in all I think I made his views a little more flexible as I believe he also challenged my own believes.

These disscussions are great and healthy if we show respect to others views as we go along, which so far mostly is happening.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Mike OReilly suggests that we become aware of our own biases. Yes, I couldn't agree more, but I do think that is a goal we reach towards, but may never completely attain. Mostly we see the world through our own filter, a combination of personality and experience, and that has good and poor aspects.

It's a hard job, Mike. It takes fearful self searching, and not everyone's up to it.

Agreed Ann. It’s an theoretical ideal, but one that is still worth striving towards. Of course, our biases come from our personal perspectives, and those make us who we are as individuals. So really … do we want the nirvana of pure unbiasedness? Circles within circles .

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I agree Ann....there is irrefutable evidence that we all as a species have been conditioned to unconsciously view things in a biased manner.

From symmetrical features to triggered fight or flight responses.

Where I differ with the conclusions of Mike's TED is that if accepted as a generalization.... It does not take into account the affects of the formative years of an individual.

Those childhood experiences I believe, have a bigger influence.

It would be a good factor to test for Pelagic. Perhaps some researchers have tried to devise such an experiment. If I find something in the literature, I’ll post it.

In some ways some of the experiments I’m aware of do try and account for this difference. Participants in some experiments are assigned random roles, so within the targeted population, differences between upbringing should be statistically cancelled out. If it doesn’t, then either the effect is independent of upbringing, OR all (or most) people in the target population receive similar upbringings (EDIT: Or there is a predominance of one form … probably other factors I’m not thinking of off the cuff).

Hmmmmmm...

Along these lines, it would be interesting to compare different cultural populations. Ann referenced a Polynesian community which places the reverse emphasis on material accumulation compared to our Western societies where 'he who dies with the most stuff wins'. Most (but not all) of the research I’ve read about focuses on typical Westerners. Getting to your point, I wonder how a vastly different cultural upbringing would affect the results in these experiments.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hi Ann, absolutely BUT the level of Bias can differ, I would suggest Mike and Ken are at completely different ends of the spectrum (no offense guys, the forum needs both of you).
Mike is using research as a club to support what he needs or wants to believe ,and does not want to entertain the thought that maybe others have different views through experience which is a form of research in itself! we all do that to some extent but some invest more than other's.

Thanks Dale, although I think you’ve slightly mischaracterized my stated perspective. I won’t quibble with your “club” analogy. No doubt there is truth there (my own biases). But I am more than happy to entertain the reality that others have different views. This discussion wouldn’t be happening if this weren’t the case.

I fully acknowledge that life experience produces anecdotal evidence on both sides of this discussion. Some people have reported finding no difference in wealth vs compassion. Other here have reported the opposite. That’s exactly what the research suggests should be observed. There is no contradiction here.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

Describing oneself as a Nurse Ratched pretty much defines how you feel you should/can treat others. It shows in the posts regularly.

That was a joke.... which apparently sailed right over your head.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Hi Ann, absolutely BUT the level of Bias can differ, I would suggest Mike and Ken are at completely different ends of the spectrum (no offense guys, the forum needs both of you).
Mike is using research as a club to support what he needs or wants to believe ,and does not want to entertain the thought that maybe others have different views through experience which is a form of research in itself! we all do that to some extent but some invest more than other's.

I spent four weeks living onboard my old boat with the new owner helping him get comfortable with cruising. He was a very committed Bernie Sanders fan (really nice guy I should add) this led to some interesting discussions where I found us both batting for our team (not that I'm Americ an )But all in all I think I made his views a little more flexible as I believe he also challenged my own believes.

These disscussions are great and healthy if we show respect to others views as we go along, which so far mostly is happening.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Yikes, debating politics with Americans is usually a real bad situation. First because the blind passion is right up there with religion and secondly I don't think there is another subject that has more personal bias attached. Personally we have many American friends (world's greatest hosts) and there is no question that if I debated politics with them the friendship would be over instantly.
As a Canadian we don't have the passion, generally as for the most part we never vote anyone in, we vote the other party out. I can discuss and debate politics all day and in the end we simply agree to disagree and the friendship is never effected. He'll in the States whole families will ostracize each other over politics.....bad subject!!!

[captain58sailin]

I have 3 rules aboard my vessel, #1 We don't talk politics. #2 We don't talk about religion. #3 We don't talk about sex, unless all the parties involved are aboard.

[meatservo]

Sounds boring...


meatservo

[adoxograph]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

I have 3 rules aboard my vessel, #1 We don't talk politics. #2 We don't talk about religion. #3 We don't talk about sex, unless all the parties involved are aboard.

Yours must be a dull boat ...

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

I have 3 rules aboard my vessel, #1 We don't talk politics. #2 We don't talk about religion. #3 We don't talk about sex, unless all the parties involved are aboard.

All cultures have taboos. Funny, I'm OK with cap.58's, gives you time to argue about sail trim, anchoring, watchkeeping, and provisioning.

A.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

I have 3 rules aboard my vessel, #1 We don't talk politics. #2 We don't talk about religion. #3 We don't talk about sex, unless all the parties involved are aboard.

Always wondered....why 3?

2 not enough and 4 too many?

Lol...just kidding!

[captain58sailin]

We'll just get into a big ole pile and have fun!
We have enough to talk about with fishing, and weather, and where we want to go, and what we want to be when we grow up, when to put up the jolly roger. Sometimes just being quiet has its merits.

[newhaul]

If you look and listen close a person will show you what he is.

[adoxograph]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

We'll just get into a big ole pile and have fun!
We have enough to talk about with fishing, and weather, and where we want to go, and what we want to be when we grow up, when to put up the jolly roger. Sometimes just being quiet has its merits.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I think there is some psychological distancing which comes with increased wealth. And definitely there is some (much?) such distancing which comes if one is born into wealth. After all how many people who became wealthy during their lifetimes intentionally continue to reside in their old neighborhoods? Very few indeed and they are rare exceptions rather than the rule...

Indeed.
Only the world’s most generous doner (by $), Warren Buffet, comes to mind.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Indeed.
Only the world’s most generous doner (by $), Warren Buffet, comes to mind.

He may just get the most press and eats it up. I'll bet there are some we never hear about?