Why Survey?

[Boracay]

When I brought my boat I paid a surveyor because I did not trust my own judgement.
Yes, surveyors are human.
But when we have stars in our eyes they are our only hope.
On an expensive purchase two surveys would be a good idea.
I would suggest negotiating a deal with the surveyor to do an in water only survey first. Only do the out of water survey if it is satisfactory. In my case the slipping cost the same as the surveyor.
However before the survey a a detailed personal assesement of repair costs must be done. My surveyor did not comment in this area.

[ssullivan]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

Each one of these instances were with a client that was brand new to purchasing a boat. Each one had spend weeks if not months on other peoples boats, looking at the listings, narrowing their choices.

I also know enough about what to "include" so the client can get his policy and or financing. If I list every gelcoat crack around every stanchion, They'll all have to be repaired.

Good points above, Paul - and I commend you on a nice, even handed response to some tough questions regarding your profession. I'm sure people who are new to boats should *always* get a survey. No question there. Even if it's your 2nd boat and you were a weekend warrior with your first.

Also, I found that our survey on the boat we own now was done with skill regarding the insurance and lending component. He may have mistook the TV antenna for an EPIRB, but he did do a great job estimating value and putting just enough "stuff" in so he didn't scare off the lender.

Personally, I'm not down on surveyors. I guess it comes down to the rule you said in your reply: If you've owned more boats than cars...

Again... great response to a very sensitive topic. My hat is off to you.

[Pura Vida]

I may have dinged the forum with some browser antics earlier, but I would be real surprised if I did ( if / then...) Anyway as soon as I posted, I backed up several screens trying to get to another server. I logged off and back on immediately but could not find the thread.

[cardiacpaul]

Pure,

the disclaimers are there to protect against unforseen & hidden things...
examples... the stuffing box was fine at time of survey, but it started to weep in the month it took to close the deal, not my fault.
Or the teak & holly sole looks great but I can't see the "greatbig-o"(thats an international southern unit of measurement)
crack in the liner underneath. The owner would take a dim view of me ripping that up.
the insurance covers the lawyer who responds...
"you moron, my client isn't liable because you can't dock your own da**boat without playing bumpercars."
ummm, seems as though my responses are out of sequence when I mash the send button, pay homage to the internet gawds.
so I reposted

[Andy R]

Testing, does this go to the end?

[Pblais]

Yes Andy but we have a time and space problem depending on your view. I Hybrid mode this is post number one but displays at the end of the thread. Posts are not apearing wheh they should and sometimes not until some period of time.

[yona]

Asking a Broker to recommend a Surveyor is something akin to asking the 18 year old clerc in a clothing store: "is it durable", or "does it look good on me"?

one of my favorite quotes is Buffett's (Warren not Jimmy):

"Don’t ask the barber if you need a haircut."

[hellosailor]

I've always heard that you SHOULD ask the broker to recommend a surveyor. And then, cross that name off your list, because they might be buddies.

[cardiacpaul]

How do I weigh in on this....

I've said this before... if you grew up on boats, have webbed feet, owned more holes in the water than cars, don't have to finance it or insure it, can look beyond the impulse/heartflutter/firstgirlfriend impressions you have, and have a clue as to what repairs are going to cost,(in time and materials) you don't need me.
You're going to buy what you want to, pay what you think its worth, and live with your decision. You've got the experience you need. Good for you. I'm happy for ya. really I am. No, really!!!

However, when is the last time you bought a house for over 90k without having an inspection?

As far as brokers and surveyors go... there are always going to be bad apples. There are some brokers that won't call me ever again because I "chased away a buyer".

Oh well, maybe the broker should have known that the boat that he had listed as a 1999 had a diesel in it that was out of manufacture in 1985. (Nope, he "didn't know anything about a repower, hmmm, he'll have to call the owner about that") and the previous survey (in 2004) listed it as original equipment!


Or, on another boat, perhaps he should have informed the owner about the salvage title BEFORE I got there.

Or, why another partcular boat was said to be in "bristol condition".... Yes, the brightwork was lovely, you could see yourself in the toerails, the cabin had candles and incense, light jazz on the 1000.00 stereo. Engine and room were spic and span. The deck was freshly scrubbed, and teck & holly sole was as shiny as a new penny... when I reached under the hull/deckjoint and pulled out a handful of rotted wood, that survey was over.

Each one of these instances were with a client that was brand new to purchasing a boat. Each one had spend weeks if not months on other peoples boats, looking at the listings, narrowing their choices.

I also know enough about what to "include" so the client can get his policy and or financing. If I list every gelcoat crack around every stanchion, They'll all have to be repaired. Of course, if I don't point them out, the purchaser can come back to me and say "this boat is junk, you should have told me about these crazings..." (even if they are cosmetic only) thats why I like for the buyer and owner to be there. I don't care if the broker sells a boat. I don't really care if that particular client buys that particular boat. I don't make a dime either way. What I do care about is quite simple. Is this boat going to be safe, what is its history, what is its current condition, and what is likely to bite the puchaser in the behind in the future. If I don't know about a particular chrome plated tittilator valve, I'll say so. I'm not that good. I can't BS with a straight face.

There are some surveyors that specialize, thats fine. I don't know diddly squat (thats a technical term) about those baja/fountain/cigarette things. Don't want to, don't need to, and will steer clear of any thought of a survey concerning one. I'll do "some" larger motorized pleasure craft, but not many. I'm a sailor by heart. There are some fine fellows that will survey a 19ft sea-ray listed for 5500.00.

I'm not one of them. If that floats, and the engine doesn't knock, the transom isn't falling off and the outdrive steers and doesn't sound like moms blender in the bathtub, buy the darn boat, you'll be fine. If however you're looking at a 30-65ft sailboat, and have no idea what you're looking at and know it, call a surveyor.

In water vs out of water. I know hauling and sitting on the hard is expensive especially if you in the "looking" phase.
Look at doing an "in-water" first. If the boat is already in the water, and you have it hauled, you're only going to get minimal return for the first blush. A moisture meter on the hull won't help much unless its been on the hard awhile. Yes, you'll see blisters if they're there. It will help to see the "smile", how many times it may have been grounded and how well its been repaired, the general condition of the bottom, rudder, prop, cutlass, and adnodes... (while I'm at it, unless the boat is a rare bird, its going to have some blisters. get over it. ymmv) A plastic hammer is going to give me a better idea than a moisture meter.

True story.
A few years back, I surveyed a 40 footer. nice boat, deal was done, eveybody was all smiles.
Three weeks time passes and theres a knock on my door from the local constable. I've been sued. It seems the fellow that bought this boat rammed into the dock, caused damage to the dock and two other boats. He sued me because of my "gross negligence". I failed to inform him that because of the prop size on his 30,000lb boat, it would not be able to stop from a speed of about 3 knots within the 50 ft of his finger pier. Silly me.

One more thing... If the disclaimers aren't worth what they're printed on, how come I pay a pile, I mean a real pile of money for O & E liability?

[Pura Vida]

As for in the water surveys they may have their place. I was looking at an old Tartan on the other side of the state I found online. I found a surveyor in the area and he gave me an breif in the water survey. There was a big problem with the mast step. I sent the guy a couple of hundred dollars and was glad tht I didn't have to drive from Galveston to Dennison and back ("a fur stretch" in local the vernacular) just to see a boat I would not buy.

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

How do I weigh in on this....
One more thing... If the disclaimers aren't worth what they're printed on, how come I pay a pile, I mean a real pile of money for O & E liability?

CP,
I think we agree but I'm not sure I follow the statement above. As a surveyor, how do the disclaimers really protect you in a lawsuit and why is insurance so high.

pv