Wind Systems

[SqPeg]

A mast strike with another boat removed my Windex and anchor light. I was hoping to replace the Windex with a wind system but the mast is stayless. Unstepping this mast would be prohibitively expensive. While the mast is likened to a highway light pole, the wire has to come down through a conduit. The quandry is whether to risk installation of a wire or go wireless. They want $1200 for the wireless system and $100-200 labor.

The boat is a Hunter Vision. Recommendations?

[bgallinger]

I have a Hunter 340 and installed the TackTick (now marketed by Raymarine) wind indicator some years ago. Works great and is wireless.
Why would unstepping your mast be "prohibitively expensive"??
Paying $100 to $200 to install this wind indicator is nuts. All it takes is a couple of screw holes at the top of the mast, mount the wind indicator, calibrate it, then mount the readout by your helm. Done

[thomm225]

Do you really need a Windex?

Maybe it's just something you've just gotten used to being there but don't really need if you've been sailing a while

[Mike OReilly]

Make sure your mast isn't too tall for the tacktick. At ~50 feet we're on the edge of the range. I sometimes loose the signal to my cockpit display.

Does work great though (most of the time), and love the lack of wires. As BG says, easy installation.

[SqPeg]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

I have a Hunter 340 and installed the TackTick (now marketed by Raymarine) wind indicator some years ago. Works great and is wireless.
Why would unstepping your mast be "prohibitively expensive"??
Paying $100 to $200 to install this wind indicator is nuts. All it takes is a couple of screw holes at the top of the mast, mount the wind indicator, calibrate it, then mount the readout by your helm. Done

When I said this mast was akin to a highway interchange light post, I wasn't kidding...spun aluminum foot and a half in diameter. And it's stepped to the keel. It's also 53' AWL. The marina wants $1k.

[Viking Sailor]

Find another yard! As an example: Locally the yard in Berkeley charges:

Crane Service --

Masts, Engines etc. Use of crane (1/2 hr. min.) $200.00/hr.

Have a rigger hoisted to the top of the mast to make the necessary repairs.

Good luck...

[UNCIVILIZED]

Other (good) suggestions aside. If the old wiring is still in place inside of the conduit, you might try attaching a length of 4-5mm cord to it. Then pull out the old wire, thus pulling the cord up through the conduit to the masthead. And use the cord to install new wiring.

That said, it boils down to $, & Need vs. Want. Though I reckon a Windex is more of a need on a stayless mast, as you've few enough options on where to hang telltales.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

That said, it boils down to $, & Need vs. Want. Though I reckon a Windex is more of a need on a stayless mast, as you've few enough options on where to hang telltales.

Telltales on the jib is about all you should need especially if you are not racing, but if you don't sail a lot and don't have a feel for the wind, a windex is probably a nice thing to have

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Other (good) suggestions aside. If the old wiring is still in place inside of the conduit, you might try attaching a length of 4-5mm cord to it. Then pull out the old wire, thus pulling the cord up through the conduit to the masthead. And use the cord to install new wiring.

That said, it boils down to $, & Need vs. Want. Though I reckon a Windex is more of a need on a stayless mast, as you've few enough options on where to hang telltales.

Leave that messenger line in the mast afterwards for whatever you want to run next. Or drop a cord with a few dozen washers on it down from the top if the old pull doesn't work out.

Which region are you in? Some rigging yards have fixed cherry pickers that as less time, $, and risk than a crane.

The windex wil only be there til, yup, the next time It breaks. Tie a few pieces of yarn hanging from the boom and try that for a month - no windex puts you more in touch with the wind not less.

[Jim Cate]

Classic CF here... chap asks a question, some try to answer it, others pile on saying that he shouldn't be asking the question.

Some sailors don't need or want a wind instrument, and that's fine for them. I find them to be quite useful, especially at night in lighter airs. And if the OP has an autopilot, and he wants to use it in wind mode he needs the input from the instrument. I use it that way too, as do many folks who cruise short handed.

Tell tales are useful, with or without the instrument, but hanging them on the boom does not give you much useful info, and no matter where you put them, they are hard to see at night... especially ones on the leeward side of the genoa.

So please let up on the "don't need it" diatribes and lets see if we can help him with what he wants to know.

I'd go along with the folks who advise using any extant wiring to act as a puller for the new wiring... if there is room in the conduit for wires plus messenger line. All too many conduits are jammed up tight with wires, making this iption difficult.

The wireless option is attractive, but there has been a lot of negative feedback relative to their reliability. No personal experience, so no opinion from me.

Jim

[belizesailor]

So its stayless...why could you not just go up in a bosun's chair and install a new one?

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Telltales on the jib is about all you should need especially if you are not racing, but if you don't sail a lot and don't have a feel for the wind, a windex is probably a nice thing to have

You might try asking him a bit about how and where he sails instead of just jumping in and recommending going without. I've been sailing over 50 years and I think wind instruments are hugely beneficial. We're not all tooling around the southern Bay you know.

If you're ever caught offshore in a strong gale on a moonless night, you'll really appreciate having a wind instrument. Just sayin'.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Telltales have a lot of limitations that a Windex doesn't.
- For example, under sail at sea your tri-color is on, right? And thus it illuminates the Windex, especially when sailing to windward. But really, on all points of sail. Including reaching, & downwind, when the helmsman can't see the telltales on a jib. Given that it's dark, or that they're often obscured by the main.
This is especially true for novice & intermediate level helmsmen. AKA 90%+ of those who drive boats.

- In order to see jib telltales, typically a helmsman has to sit as far as possible either to leeward & to weather. As well as as far forward as he can. Otherwise the main makes them impossible to see. And when helming from either location, your ability to see 360 gets wiped off the map. Right along with your situational awareness. But you can see a Windex from dang near anywhere on the boat. Ergo you keep your view of the big picture, though it's still wise to check the telltales frequently.

- Wind shifts happen first up high. So spotting them early is key so that you can fall off in the headers, & come up in the lifts. And by the time you see these sorts of shifts via jib telltales, unless you're an ace driver, then it's a bit late. And you then stall the flow over the sails. Oops.

- Plus, it's nice to have dual wind input indicators. Or even more than 2 (way more). In racing when sailing upwind you have:
* Jib telltales usually being called out to the helmsman by a trimmer sitting to leeward.
* Main telltales, which are easy to see in the same glance as checking the Windex.
* The Windex, which the helmsman watches along with the main & jib telltales. Though more the former 2 than the latter by far.
* Crew on the windward rail calling inbound puffs & wind shifts for the helmsman. In terms of puff strength, & whether it's a lift or a header, & by how much. As well as how long until they arrive at the boat.

Instruments let you see & track wind changes of as little as 1 degree, particularly at night. And, or, if you don't have digital compasses for the helmsman to use in conjunction with the Windex, to track lifts, headers, & wind trends.
Also, you can have instrument repeaters below at the nav desk. And if you like, over the skipper's bunk as well. That way he can monitor course, wind, & a few other things.

Without instruments you can't really figure out TWS, TWA, consistent wind trends, & leeway, etc. All of which are fairly important. Both for optimum sailing performance, & for tracking changes in the weather. Which again, it's handy to have this info available at the nav desk, & for the skipper in his bunk.

The bit about tracking weather via wind shifts is particularly important, or should be. As it plays directly to both safety, & to comfort at sea. Ditto COG, SMG, & leeway, on each tack. Again for fairly self evident reasons.

The other thing is, how good is your partner at neck massages? As if you're staring up at the Windex & telltales for hours on end, you're gonna' need some neck manipulation (plus a beer & a few Tylenol). This coming from a guy who's a fiend for loving kite trimming. Where one's neck definitely gets a workout from looking up.

Not that I'm an instrument junkie, mind you. Since when I'm teaching people to race, especially on larger boats, I make it a point to routinely switch everything off, & make the crew & helmsman get the best performance out of the boat using their own senses. As I don't know of any great sailors who aren't still good sailors sans instruments. Though each skill/tool compliments the other.

Heck, I even teach people to optimize their helming skills while blindfolded. With & without someone feeding them information on sail trim, including whether they're sailing too high or too low, when wind shifts are coming, along with what the shifts are. Meaning puffs, or lulls, & lifts or headers (or not).
Universally this drill draws groans, until I explain why we're doing it. And also when folks start to see & feel the benefits from it. As it surely gets trimmers & helmsmen communicating better, & makes helmsmen both more intuitive, & situationally aware... using all of their senses.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

SNIP

The wireless option is attractive, but there has been a lot of negative feedback relative to their reliability. No personal experience, so no opinion from me.

Jim

My limited research is wireless stuff is getting better but not quite ready for prime time. Still they are attractive and I have noticed more peeps are making them and still more peeps are using them. Hope they get things worked out sooner than later.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Originally Posted by tomfl

My limited research is wireless stuff is getting better but not quite ready for prime time. Still they are attractive and I have noticed more peeps are making them and still more peeps are using them. Hope they get things worked out sooner than later.

Yep.. from what I see and hear about TackTick, it is not reliable enough to be considered quality kit. OPINION only