Winged Keels

[Kenomac]

I noticed a big sailing/stability difference between our Hunter 450 with a wing keel and Sailorboy's Hunter 41 with a deep fin keel. His boat seemed much more stable and sailed a much straighter line. Personally, I wouldn't buy another winged keel boat after having two yachts with deep fin keels.

[Group9]

We spent a lot of time in the Bahamas, and the gulf coast, sailing our 42 Catalina 4’10” wing keel in places we couldn’t have taken the 6’6” deep keel version.

I don’t know where a lot of this conventional wisdom comes from. We drove ours hard aground in the ICW once in the Florida Keys, and heeled it with the dinghy to unstick it without any of the problems described by some. The other few times we grounded it, didn’t seem any worse than groundings in my two fin keel sailboats. The worst for groundings was our semi- full keel Cape Dory 25D. When that sucker went aground, it was aground!

Performance wise, our wing keel sucked eggs compared to the fin keel 42’s. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t designed to out perform the fin keel boat, but just to go in shallower water. If I lived and boated in deeper water, I would have gone that route. But, I don’t.

[Pete7]

Surely they have some uses, certainly saves getting the anchor out if you live in a tidal area.

Not good for street cred though if you park at the entrance to one of the UKs premier rivers at a weekend.

[sailorboy1]

I had a Cal-39 with a HUGE wing and shoal draft (looked a LOT like post 1). It pointed high and handled seas just fine. In the "owners manual" there was note from the designer that they expected the shoal draft wing keel to perform better than the deep draft non wing keel.

But, man when that wing went aground into the mud it was stuck!

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Surely they have some uses, certainly saves getting the anchor out if you live in a tidal area.



Not good for street cred though if you park at the entrance to one of the UKs premier rivers at a weekend.

That image makes me laugh.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Surely they have some uses, certainly saves getting the anchor out if you live in a tidal area.

Not good for street cred though if you park at the entrance to one of the UKs premier rivers at a weekend.

Dunno about you, Pete,but I would not have looked as calm as the chap in the cockpit does! Did the boat really stay balanced through a full tide cycle?

Jim

[Jim Cate]

FWIW, a troll through the PHRF ratings shows in most cases where there are both a wing and a conventional keel the wing is rated slower. A few show as equal, but I didn't see any where the wing was faster. Didn't look at all of the hundreds of ratings, though...

Jim

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Dunno about you, Pete,but I would not have looked as calm as the chap in the cockpit does! Did the boat really stay balanced through a full tide cycle?

Jim

Yes I think so. Me, I would be a mild state of panic too wondering which side to put the dinghy on so it takes the impact, 50/50 chance and do I feel lucky

Pete

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

FWIW, a troll through the PHRF ratings shows in most cases where there are both a wing and a conventional keel the wing is rated slower. A few show as equal, but I didn't see any where the wing was faster. Didn't look at all of the hundreds of ratings, though...

Jim

A winglet on an airplane simulates aerodynamically a longer wing to an extent.
A longer wing would work better aerodynamically, but being longer it has to be more strongly built which means heavier, so there is a point of diminishing returns, plus of course then you have an aircraft that may not fit as well into hangers etc., there are other issues, yaw stability etc.

If a winged keel forms a similar function as a winglet on an airplane, then it’s not going to perform as well as a deeper keel, but it’s going to perform better than the same shallow draft keel without the winglet, on paper anyway.

My belief is that a winged keel on a cruising boat is a way to turn a deep draft vessel into a shoal draft, and maybe not lose too much performance.

I’d think that the ideal performance keel may look similar to a sailplanes wing, very long and thin, but I’m no racer or Naval Architect etc., so I’m just guessing.

Of course such a keel would likely be a fragile thing and be very, very deep draft

[Pete7]

On a more practical matter, how do you antifoul the underside? Assuming it is made of cast iron it will also need regular epoxy paint too, not a two minute job just before being launched.

Pete

[CptCrunchie]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Dunno about you, Pete,but I would not have looked as calm as the chap in the cockpit does! Did the boat really stay balanced through a full tide cycle?

Jim

I wouldn't be so calm, not just about tipping over, but bending or crushing the foam cored rudder. I'm also surprised that the rudder is as deep as the keel.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by CptCrunchie

I wouldn't be so calm, not just about tipping over, but bending or crushing the foam cored rudder. I'm also surprised that the rudder is as deep as the keel.

I think that on some shoal draft boats the rudder may even extend down below the keel. I assume the rudder is the same for both.
Just me, but I would not want that boat with all those bits hanging down where I cruise.
I almost have to think that photo is photoshopped or something, cause if I were him, I’d be afraid to move

Then on some bilge keel boats they are apparently meant to sit on the rudder like a three legged stool? Only one I have seen on the ground up close sat on its keels though, they were long enough

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by Pete7

On a more practical matter, how do you antifoul the underside? Assuming it is made of cast iron it will also need regular epoxy paint too, not a two minute job just before being launched.

Pete

On our winged keeler I used to jack it up to paint the undersides of the steel plate that the bulbs sat on. But yes it was a PITA.
As for sitting in mud boat was in a marina that would have only about 2 ft of water @ low tide. There would be at least 6" of mud sitting on top of keels after it had heaved itself outa mud at high tide.
It could stand on it's keel & dry out on a firm bottom but you wouldnt want much wind.
We finished a race once & anchored too shallow on an outgoing tide & were having drinks & a bbq on the beach with the other competitors watchn our keeler drying out and beginning to lean... Eventually it fell over to much hilarity. We won the navigators trophy unsurprisingly.
No damage apart from ego & it slowly came upright as tide came in. Took a while to live it down I can tell ya.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Surely they have some uses, certainly saves getting the anchor out if you live in a tidal area.

Not good for street cred though if you park at the entrance to one of the UKs premier rivers at a weekend.

On a wing and a prayer – boat aground on Hamble Spit








Apparently had 7 people on board at the time, i think movement would be kept to a minimum

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news...mble-spit-3665

Yachting Monthly
April 25, 2012

Many Yachting Monthly readers have sent us in photos of this Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40, Vision, which went aground on Hamble Spit on Saturday 21 April at 0100.

The yacht remained standing on its small wing keel until midday, with seven people on board.

The yacht is believed to have suffered steering failure and the crew managed to fix it before they floated off.

River Hamble Harbour Authority said: ‘We’ve never seen anything like this before. You couldn’t do it again if you tried.’

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I noticed a big sailing/stability difference between our Hunter 450 with a wing keel and Sailorboy's Hunter 41 with a deep fin keel. His boat seemed much more stable and sailed a much straighter line. Personally, I wouldn't buy another winged keel boat after having two yachts with deep fin keels.

Oh man, You and Sailorboy joined forces once and went for a sail. That must have been an adventure . I wish I could've been there, I bet the conversation was very interesting. Next time you all are in the peoples republic of Massachusetts, let me know, I'd love to join!