wire to rope halyard for in mast furler

[madprops]

Hi,
I'm about to replace my main sail halyard, the old halyard is wire to rope, I have a in mast furler. Is there any reason I shouldn't just replace it with the same?

If I put another wire/rope halyard on I would get a lot less stretch and I wouldn't have to replace anything on the mast.

If I switch to dyneema I would have to check my sheaves, if its not going up and down all the time, is a V groove ok for dyneema (i'm guessing not).

The boat is a Prout Quasar 50 catamaran


Thanks for any help

[nhschneider]

I remain a big fan of wire-to-rope halyards as they don’t chafe. Granted, there are many high-tech ropes out there which are stronger and lighter but they’re not a lot stronger and not a lot lighter but they are subject to chafe. On our recent circumnavigation, we frequently traveled with an informal ‘fleet’ of other boats and several of them who used ropes made with high-modulus polyethylene (eg, Dyneema) had to make emergency repairs. Dame Ellen MacArthur wrote in her book, Taking On the World, about having to replace a halyard while sailing in 40 knots of wind in the Southern Ocean. A harrowing account and wouldn’t have happened if she had been using wire-to-rope halyards.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[Pete7]

When I replaced the standing rigging 9 years ago, I also had the running rigging replaced including the inmast wire/rope halyard. Despite the mast being 23 years old at that point there was no wear on the shelves so went ahead with Dyneema.

Today there is a slight furring of the outer Dyneema sheave were it is held in the clutch but nothing to get excited about. This isn't a halyard we fiddle with very much, unlike say a slab reefing halyard.

Pete

[chrisr]

why would anybody use a wire or wire to rope halyard for anything on any boat ?

dyneema is much better in every respect.

don't believe the comments about chafe...simply not true for modern fibers

no RTW race boat in the last 5 years (maybe longer) has used any wire halyards. that says it all...

cheers,

ps : btw, yr V groove sheeve is fine...not ideal, but fine

[slug]

Originally Posted by madprops

Hi,
I'm about to replace my main sail halyard, the old halyard is wire to rope, I have a in mast furler. Is there any reason I shouldn't just replace it with the same?

If I put another wire/rope halyard on I would get a lot less stretch and I wouldn't have to replace anything on the mast.

If I switch to dyneema I would have to check my sheaves, if its not going up and down all the time, is a V groove ok for dyneema (i'm guessing not).

The boat is a Prout Quasar 50 catamaran


Thanks for any help

It’s a good choice for in mast furling

For other halyards fabric is best

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by chrisr

why would anybody use a wire or wire to rope halyard for anything on any boat ?

dyneema is much better in every respect.

don't believe the comments about chafe...simply not true for modern fibers

no RTW race boat in the last 5 years (maybe longer) has used any wire halyards. that says it all...

cheers,

ps : btw, yr V groove sheeve is fine...not ideal, but fine

Because the sheaves are already setup for it, the masthead sheave boxes are old and sharp.

I’m all for changing if someone else wants to foot the bill for changing everything That is functional but just old.

[Rucksta]

Why are you replacing the halyard?
Is there wear and if so what caused it?

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by madprops

Hi,
I'm about to replace my main sail halyard, the old halyard is wire to rope, I have a in mast furler. Is there any reason I shouldn't just replace it with the same?

If I put another wire/rope halyard on I would get a lot less stretch and I wouldn't have to replace anything on the mast.

If I switch to dyneema I would have to check my sheaves, if its not going up and down all the time, is a V groove ok for dyneema (i'm guessing not).

The boat is a Prout Quasar 50 catamaran


Thanks for any help

With an in-mast furler, once you raise the main, it will stay there, so you have no way of checking if the halyard is chafing. Keep that in mind if you are thinking about replacing the wire with rope.

[slug]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

With an in-mast furler, once you raise the main, it will stay there, so you have no way of checking if the halyard is chafing. Keep that in mind if you are thinking about replacing the wire with rope.

Rope also hold and wicks water

Not good for a permanent component inside an aluminum mast

[madprops]

Originally Posted by nhschneider

I remain a big fan of wire-to-rope halyards as they don’t chafe. Granted, there are many high-tech ropes out there which are stronger and lighter but they’re not a lot stronger and not a lot lighter but they are subject to chafe. On our recent circumnavigation, we frequently traveled with an informal ‘fleet’ of other boats and several of them who used ropes made with high-modulus polyethylene (eg, Dyneema) had to make emergency repairs. Dame Ellen MacArthur wrote in her book, Taking On the World, about having to replace a halyard while sailing in 40 knots of wind in the Southern Ocean. A harrowing account and wouldn’t have happened if she had been using wire-to-rope halyards.

Fair winds and calm seas.

Thanks for that info, A lot of people seem to be very opposed to wire/rope halyards. But I think for a in mast furler they still an up side. I'm still on the fence but I'm leaning to get another wire to rope one. The old halyard lasted for 25 years so it can't be that bad haha

[madprops]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Why are you replacing the halyard?
Is there wear and if so what caused it?

The halyard is over 25 years old, I don't really trust the rope part of it it looks "old" and is really dirty, the wire part looks great.

I think the rope would look a lot better if I washed it, but I plan on doing a lot bluewater sailing, my thinking was get a new one and keep the old one for a back up.

[slug]

Originally Posted by madprops

Thanks for that info, A lot of people seem to be very opposed to wire/rope halyards. But I think for a in mast furler they still an up side. I'm still on the fence but I'm leaning to get another wire to rope one. The old halyard lasted for 25 years so it can't be that bad haha

The beauty of rope halyards is that they can be end for ended as they age
They can be spliced on the chart table with no tools

Wire rope is only for special
Applications

[madprops]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

With an in-mast furler, once you raise the main, it will stay there, so you have no way of checking if the halyard is chafing. Keep that in mind if you are thinking about replacing the wire with rope.

That's a great point, It is really easy to climb up my mast (built in ladder) but I would rather not have to do that all the time.

[billknny]

Originally Posted by madprops

Hi,
I'm about to replace my main sail halyard, the old halyard is wire to rope, I have a in mast furler. Is there any reason I shouldn't just replace it with the same?

If I put another wire/rope halyard on I would get a lot less stretch and I wouldn't have to replace anything on the mast.

If I switch to dyneema I would have to check my sheaves, if its not going up and down all the time, is a V groove ok for dyneema (i'm guessing not).

The boat is a Prout Quasar 50 catamaran


Thanks for any help

I have seen three haylards fail.

First was an old wire/rope where the splice failed. So DO replace your old and tired one.

Second was a spectra cored line on a race boat. The cover LOOKED perfect, but the inner fibers had ben totally crushed in a rope clutch. The line failed under light load while being sweated up by hand!

Third was a dyneema cored haylard on a roller furling main. The inner fibers failed where they went over the mast head sheave.

This is an important consideration when going aloft on a cored halyard. Remember... the visual appearance of the cover tells you NOTHING about the condition of the actual weight bearing fibers in the core.

[psk125]

Generally, wire-to-rope halyards make no sense. They’re more expensive than all-fiber halyards because of the splice, and the wire stretches more than the new synthetic materials. In this situation, however, for a r/f main that is left hoisted, it seems to be a reasonable choice. This is because of the chafe issue at the masthead sheave, where it would not be likely to be inspected often. People use dyneema for their lifelines, so they obviously feel it is strong and dependable. Lifelines are easily checked for chafe, though.
Since this halyard is essentially only going to get used to hoist the main once, the join between the wire and the rope could be made with eye-splices or soft shackles instead of the expensive and hard to make wire-to-rope splice. The join only has to be small enough to fit through the mast exit, and then the wire goes on the winch, no? It gets cleated off and coiled.