Yanmar 1GM10 vs Volvo Penta D1-13?

[Katapult Mike]

Originally Posted by Wotname

For a heavily scaled engine, I think hydrochloric (muriatic) acid is the only way to go. For reasons posts before, sulphuric acid won't work and the other options are just not strong enough IMO.

I'm neither a professional mechanic nor chemist, but I thought I would share some relevant experience. I had a Volvo two cylinder raw water cooled engine on a boat I owned back in the 80's. I bought it in Greece and it had just had it's engine "rebuilt" when I bought it. This apparently involved replacing the main bearings without grinding the crank shaft. The engine was designed to allow this, with access hatches built into the engine block to allow you you to get to the bearings. I guess they didn't even have to take it out of the boat.

That worked out about as good as you would expect, and didn't last long. In Spain I pulled the engine out to do a complete rebuild. I decided a thorough descale was a good idea while I had it apart. In those pre-internet days, I couldn't get a lot of detailed info for it.

I decided to use muriatic acid, but alterated washing it with acid and washing it out with a strong alkaline (lye). I figured that would really shake up the scale. Boy, did it. Fortunately, I was wearing eye protection, gloves and was pretty well covered up. The reaction was intense.

It might of been a stupid thing to do, I dunno. But the inside of that engine was pristine when I was done, and it ran like a Swiss watch for the rest of the time I owned the boat.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Katapult Mike

I'm neither a professional mechanic nor chemist, but I thought I would share some relevant experience. I had a Volvo two cylinder raw water cooled engine on a boat I owned back in the 80's. I bought it in Greece and it had just had it's engine "rebuilt" when I bought it. This apparently involved replacing the main bearings without grinding the crank shaft. The engine was designed to allow this, with access hatches built into the engine block to allow you you to get to the bearings. I guess they didn't even have to take it out of the boat.

That worked out about as good as you would expect, and didn't last long. In Spain I pulled the engine out to do a complete rebuild. I decided a thorough descale was a good idea while I had it apart. In those pre-internet days, I couldn't get a lot of detailed info for it.

I decided to use muriatic acid, but alterated washing it with acid and washing it out with a strong alkaline (lye). I figured that would really shake up the scale. Boy, did it. Fortunately, I was wearing eye protection, gloves and was pretty well covered up. The reaction was intense.

It might of been a stupid thing to do, I dunno. But the inside of that engine was pristine when I was done, and it ran like a Swiss watch for the rest of the time I owned the boat.

Thanks for sharing the experience. I don't think I would be brave enough to follow the muriatic wash with lye wash without some good rinsing between the applications of the acid and alkaline!

But you survived eh!

For other readers, lye (sodium hydroxide - NaOH) needs to be treated with some care. Although it has many uses, one must remember it would decompose living proteins (i.e. your hands etc) and has been used to get rid of (i.e. dissolve) bodies (human or otherwise). Good for making soap though!

It does work well on old oil deposits but it must be kept away from any aluminium and aluminium alloys. It's safe on cast iron.

Disclaimer - I am not a chemist so do your own research if you wish try any of these methods upthread

[scottrgrewe]

I think the maybe mounting/ prop shaft alignment should be considered?
I love my old volvo, but I treat it nice..

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by witzgall

The features you pointed out, the ability to limit the maximum field percentage, and small engine mode, were first available from Balmar decades ago, and are indeed a feature of all of our current programmable regulators. You can adjust the field percentage in 5% increments from 100-55%. Small engine mode drops it to 50%, and can be wired to work from a simple toggle switch in the cockpit. In such a way, one can utilize much more of the available power from a smaller engine toward propulsion instead of charging, for instance when fighting an opposing current.

Balmar also offers a Valeo conversion kit, that allows one to take that stock Valeo alternator from the Yanmar engine and convert it to SmartReady external regulation, without the need to take it to an alternator specialist for conversion.

These tools together make using a larger alternator on a smaller engine a compelling option.

Chris

Might be more then just a compelling option. On small boats there is less space for solar panels. Using a small engine as a generator while not engaged for propulsion is a very efficient way to get some serious amps in the battery. Using this alternator according to Spec. https://www.ecotechalternators.com/w...t-14V.pdf_.pdf

will produce 260 amps @ 1800 RPM low idle and max RPM325 Amps,
As You can observe the input shaft power on the alternator at 1800 RPM is aprox 6 HP. So there is plenty of room if You could reduce the load of the alternator load by 50%.
Now the Wake Speed says.....
In addition, the regulator can be configured to a small alternator mode, which limits the maximum field potential to 75 percent. This can be used when battery capacity exceeds the alternator’s capabilities, or to protect smaller engines and belts from excessive alternator loads.

That should make it possible to charge a fair size Lithium battery even on a small boat with less solar capacity.

Originally Posted by scottrgrewe

I think the maybe mounting/ prop shaft alignment should be considered?
I love my old volvo, but I treat it nice..

Of course with such a beast direct drive with a coupling is the prefered choice. Somewhere on their website I remember them using a small Yanmar for a DC generator set up. Also they have special service for specific custom regulator configuration.

From a price point my prefered choice would be......
https://www.drinkwaard.com/en/marine...itsubishi-l2e/
@ 5.500 € with gearbox, dashboard, etc.
Only modification for connecting big alternator to shaft is placing the external driven water pump to another position.
Same engine as Westerbeeke 20B Two , VETUS Marine M2.04, SOLE Sail-Drive (Mini 17), ..... and many construction and agriculture machinery... too much to list that will give me plenty of options to make this modification with of the shelf parts
The hell with Volvo and Yanmar...Mitsubishi !! easy to fix and cheap spares parts everywhere.
@ 15 HP with a big shaft driven alternator with a Lithium pack that´s gotta be a nice set up for a small boat, cheap to maintain and service friendly.

Here is a 700 amp Lithium pack. Weight @ 86 Lbs is less then 4 x 6V golf Cart Batteries
https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-12V-...onitoring.html
That is 8,4 kWh of energy storage and after solar a couple of hours big alternator charging every 2-3 days that should take care of all propulsion and energy issues on board of a small boat.

[StuartWeibel]

I can't speak to the Volvo Penta, but I had to replace my 1GM10 after 2508 hours a few years back.

As a raw water cooled engine, it is subject to corrosion (there was certainly copious scale in the cooling galleries of mine). A RWC'd engine isn't going to last as long as the alternative. I don't think that is what killed mine, though.

I hoped to rebuild it, but when I got it apart, the cylinders were way out of spec. Consultation with the local Yanmar dealers revealed that no oversized cylinder is available from Yanmar. Why? the engine block had been modified by the manufacturer from the 1GM to increase its power from 9 to 11 horsepower, effectively denying the option of further boring out the block. It's inherent susceptibility to internal corrosion further reduces the suitability for re-boring.

I replaced my 1GM10 with a beta 14 and am very happy with the new engine -- the additional power is greatly appreciated, the engine meets all current anti-pollution standards as well. The story of my re-powering experience is available at Re-powering s/v Ripple

There are a couple things you can do that may help keep your 1GM10 in good order: (1) the obvious thing - the engine block zinc. It is in an awkward position, requiring removal of the alternator to gain access, which means it is easy to forget, and annoying to replace. (2) the thermostat is recommended for replacement every year or so if memory serves. I had never replaced mine... when I took my engine apart, it was so scaled-up that it probably wasn't working well. Curiously, when I cleaned it up and tested it in a pot on the stove, it seemed to be functioning. At least remove and inspect as part of your annual maintenance -- easy job.

good luck

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by StuartWeibel

I can't speak to the Volvo Penta, but I had to replace my 1GM10 after 2508 hours a few years back.

As a raw water cooled engine, it is subject to corrosion (there was certainly copious scale in the cooling galleries of mine). A RWC'd engine isn't going to last as long as the alternative. I don't think that is what killed mine, though.

I hoped to rebuild it, but when I got it apart, the cylinders were way out of spec. Consultation with the local Yanmar dealers revealed that no oversized cylinder is available from Yanmar. Why? the engine block had been modified by the manufacturer from the 1GM to increase its power from 9 to 11 horsepower, effectively denying the option of further boring out the block. It's inherent susceptibility to internal corrosion further reduces the suitability for re-boring.

I replaced my 1GM10 with a beta 14 and am very happy with the new engine -- the additional power is greatly appreciated, the engine meets all current anti-pollution standards as well. The story of my re-powering experience is available at Re-powering s/v Ripple

There are a couple things you can do that may help keep your 1GM10 in good order: (1) the obvious thing - the engine block zinc. It is in an awkward position, requiring removal of the alternator to gain access, which means it is easy to forget, and annoying to replace. (2) the thermostat is recommended for replacement every year or so if memory serves. I had never replaced mine... when I took my engine apart, it was so scaled-up that it probably wasn't working well. Curiously, when I cleaned it up and tested it in a pot on the stove, it seemed to be functioning. At least remove and inspect as part of your annual maintenance -- easy job.

good luck

Yes it's a pity Yanmar stopped making wet sleeve small engines.
Our raw-water cooled Yanmar ysm8 is hardly corroded in 40 years. The secret is to keep the anodes up & if its kept at a dock its good to fresh water flush it. You can descale them too. I too would go for a Beta if doing a repower for the parts prices over Yanmars alone. I doubt very much if your thermostat was the cause of the salts buildup if it was operating properly. It probably just never had a descale in it's 2500 hrs?

Your engine install blog should be compulsory reading for all wishing to change engines. Very well written

[Lemsteraak]

A Marieholm 26 is a fiberglass Folkboat..... called an IF (International Folkboat)

This isn't a typical cruising sailboat, they sail really well. Like sail in and out of a a berth well. With a clean bottom, a little 2hp Honda will drive it at 4Kt for an hour at full throttle. Refill the tank and run for another hour. Or better yet, get one of the new electric motors like an "Electric Paddle".

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by Lemsteraak

A Marieholm 26 is a fiberglass Folkboat..... called an IF (International Folkboat)

This isn't a typical cruising sailboat, they sail really well. Like sail in and out of a a berth well. With a clean bottom, a little 2hp Honda will drive it at 4Kt for an hour at full throttle. Refill the tank and run for another hour. Or better yet, get one of the new electric motors like an "Electric Paddle".

Depends on how you use yr vessel.
Good luck with getting out of a tight anchorage with a 15knt headwind & maybe 2ft sea with a 2hp outboard.
We have trouble with a 26 ft yacht in 25knts with an 8hp diesel. It makes us motorsail in those conditions. Admittedly it's vastly overpropped & we only get about 5 usable hp but my point still stands.
Have used a 2hp outboard to propel the boat from a side tied dinghy a few times but it's a calm weather & flat water proposition.
Think our Compass790 would perform better under sail than a folkboat under sail too. But that's just a guess looking at a pic.
I'd be happy to race one put it that way.

[Lemsteraak]

I agree, too much windage for 2hp but a piece of cake to sail upwind out of an anchorage in 15Kts. The trick is to release your outhaul to give your main more camber and more power. If you try to do this with a flat sail you don't have enough lift. We used to tack upwind in much higher winds to get to our berth. Had to tack about 20 times or more as we only had 3-4 boat lengths between docks. Motors were only if there was no wind, and then we would use the currents.

My point is that these boats sail beautifully and but are pigs under power. Your Compass790 may perform better but when the wind really pipes up there are few boats that have the seakeeping ability of a Folkboat. Here is a picture of my old boat on a typical day to give you an idea of how small these boats are. Note that there are no reef points. This one is an old woodie, the IF boats have one more strake and are caravel otherwise virtually the same.

[Lemsteraak]

I may have left the impression that a Folkboat or IF boat isn't a good cruising boat. They are, but my wife would differ. WeI've come across whole families spending months on them in Friesland having a ball.

Leo of "Tally Ho" fame lived on a very old one and sailed it across the Atlantic and back. I think his new boat may be a little more comfortable.
Lorema – Sampson Boat Co.