Tales of the South Pacific

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by Meacenas

Just a reminder about what awaits those that think the cruising grounds of yore are now so urbanified that that they may choose to become landlocked in disgust.
A preface....my girl and I have been working here in Rochester, upstate New York, for over two years to liquidate everything ( ! ) from two large colonial homes stuffed with a hundred years of two big families collective mass consumerism...we are breaking the mold to be where you, the cruiser are now. And I wish we could do it a lot faster to escape this craziness. We figure we are still two years off from buying the boat...selling off, moving to Chesapeake, setting up a business...buy the boat....its a plan we have had for three years and here in large part, is why.
You may find some of this offensive, but compared to the real life that we have to live through each day, you can be sure its only the tip of the iceberg of degradation.

We live in a pretty decent area of the city, yet even that is in swift decline. Most of the neighbors could care less about mowing their lawn or planting flowers to enhance their homes, too busy polishing their cars, smoking up and getting down with loud obnoxious parties on a regular basis and trying their level best not to get their 'prison pants' dirty with real work.
Why, yesterday a young man with a silly grin, bloodshot eyes and a 40 oz beer in one hand, tried to walk right into our house, ( we keep the screen door bolted shut) thinking that we were someone else. We actually had a trio of young ladies, high as kites, (smelling like a new mowed lawn ) , walk into my house without even a 'by your leave' in late September. That ended well in that no one got beat with the bat we keep at each door. ( the doors windows are bulletproof Lexan and those doors are 'enhanced' with heavy reinforcement to keep out the constant barrage of wanna be thieves that infest the city and bedevil the other neighbors)

Last weekend around midnight, we heard a weird snapping sound, turned out to be a drunk young man (or whatever) neighbor with a stungun in one hand ( the snap sound) and an M16 ( yes, an M16) in the other hand, dancing around the back yard like a voodoo priest. We had the neighbors come get him, they carry (illegal) guns like you and I carry wallets...if we called the police, they would of sent a huge swat team and locked up the whole neighborhood. Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
A young cop, ( one of many there ) banging on my door at 10:00 one night last week asking if we had heard gunshots from another neighbor....
Sirens all the time for some infraction. ..... rude children..." what da XXXXX are you looking at dad"? from a group of 10 year olds walking down the center of a city street. Rude adults....the middle finger salute is a greeting now?
My wife was held at knifepoint and robbed of $10.00 right in a laundromat a few years ago. Plenty of people around, just no one interested enough.
Someone crashed into the tree out front and drove off, leaving his bumper and a damaged tree behind.
Hundreds of tiny little plastic bags have become a part of our urban landscape. The smell of burning 'something' is in the air often enough that its no longer even noticed. 64 oz bottles mingle with piles of discarded tires and littered junkfood wrappers on every flat surface all the time.
Loud motorcycles, crewed by men that look like angry Viking thugs on a rampage, blast by often enough. There is super duper loud thumping, so loud it actually shakes the windows, bumping 'music 'from car after car of people that do not care snot about your quietude, all vying to be the absolute loudest in their exhortations to 'smoke da weeds, 'enslave the wimins and kill all the '5ohs'.

We sold our boat ( a 22 foot Venture trailer queen) three years ago, so now we gaze wistfully at a couple of bigger boats for sale here. Not until after we move.
We think that no matter how it gets in one marina or another, anywhere in the world, nothing can be as bad as this is now with our cities in such decline in physical nature and its people in drastically lowered personal morals.

We are patient in our step by step plodding forward. We keep in mind the way things will be, the lack of neverending blatting noises, the absence of a constant stream of crazy people intruding .........

the hiss of a rope as it runs, the clinking of ( someone elses ) halyards, the slop of the waves, the nice folks a couple boats away that wave and invite us to an afternoon of conversation and coolness. The wind .....not a soul in sight for a half dozen days.....

This sounds just like the place where I live. Upscale part of the lakes where the transients are loud, rude, wreck-less, drug addled, low IQ social pollution. They are just here to "get theirs" and leave a mark. Difference being is they drive jacked up trucks with loud exhausts and amped up music. They use my neighborhood narrow road as their own personal speedway not caring about my young children out walking.

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by TJ D

For those of you lamenting the current state of things, I'd recommend finding the movie 'Network' from the 70's. This is the 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore' movie. The most famous rant from this film will sound like it could be from today.

40 years ago, exactly the same sentiment was being expressed. It's perpetually so with us people, and really pretty false for the most part.

The world has become BETTER over the last several decades by most metrics. Violent crime is down, your odds of being killed in a military conflict are down, dying by disease (at least non self-inflicted ones) is down. Education has improved, gender equality has improved.

This list goes on and on. The world may seem to you like it's going all to hell, but the data doesn't generally support that sentiment.

There are huge problems to overcome, for sure, but have some faith that we're not on the edge of the abyss. We'll be ok.

Just a thought.. Below is some evidence about the USA, there's a lot of info out there.

Violent Crime Rates -- US Statistics | National Review

TJ

Jeeez, just your opinion I suppose. Maybe we could look at people in Detriot, Baltimore, St Louis, etc.. to see if we could make the same argument. Not to mention the wreckage left by the theoretical "war on drugs" and "war on poverty" has left behind. Does 20 TRILLION in debt not give a person a sinking feeling?US Debt Visualized: Stacked in $100 dollar bills at 20+ Trillion USD for 2017 Take a look and see what your missing,cheers

[TJ D]

Well, I never said that we were living in utopia. Of course there are lots of problems.

But, it's also the natural order of things for a fairly large portion of the population as they get older to become very, very pessimistic. As far as I can tell from my reading, it has always been so.

But the GLOBAL stats do not really support this. This means nothing to the guy dodging bullets on the south side of Chicago, or the Syrian family who died trying to flee ISIS, naturally. But, if you look at the big picture, my opinion has nothing to do with it. By most metrics, things are getting better in the world.

We still have a hell of a long way to go, but the idea that everything's going to hell is also really not something that can be supported without a lot of qualification.

TJ

[alaskaflyfish]

It appears what the OP is seeing is the evolution of western influence on remote places like the SP. Increases in consumerism and violence and the loss of remote developed culture is a net negative in all perspectives. There is now very little difference in culture between New York, London, Tokyo etc.. It is obviously the loss of isolationism that the OP clearly laments. I agree with this.

[TJ D]

Yes, this dilution of individual cultures is a bit of a shame. It's a bummer to fly to Tokyo, for example, and have a Starbucks be the first thing you see.

[Siberian Sea]

I'm an ex-pat American who has lived for years down here and and think that perhaps the "change" you talk about was more with you and not with the islands.

[Jim Cate]

Tetepare, if you got off your butt and sailed back out here to the SP, you might just find that a friendly villager would refill your half empty glass. Or perhaps you are so disillusioned that nothing would make you happy.

It isn't the same as it was when we first sailed these waters, but it is still pretty damn enjoyable... if you will let it be. for those who have not yet given it a go, well, there are some of us who still find the South Pacific an enchanting place. Perhaps you will as well. If not, at least you will have made your own findings and your own decisions, and had a hell of a sail.

Jim

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Meacenas

Rochester, upstate New York,
We live in a pretty decent area of the city, ... trying their level best not to get their 'prison pants' dirty ..., bloodshot eyes and a 40 oz beer in one hand, tried to walk right into our house, ... no one got beat with the bat we keep at each door. ... windows are bulletproof Lexan ...drunk young man (or whatever) neighbor with a stungun in one hand ( the snap sound) and an M16 ( yes, an M16) ..., they carry (illegal) guns ...heard gunshots from another neighbor......My wife was held at knifepoint and robbed of $10.00 right in a laundromat

My friend, that is not my idea of a "decent area". Get on Route 490 East. Take it to the end, and find a new home. It's 10pm and I just stepped outside. Two neighbors have the garage doors open, and I'm certain the door to the house is not locked. Mine isn't; I don't know who might stop by while I'm typing or upstairs. I can assure you, we have more guns on my street than all the urchins in Rochester combined. Yes, that would number in the thousands. It's a short street, and our homes are smallish, so sorry, we can't hit the 100K mark, sorry. But I'm sure we could grub up 100,000 rounds of ammo- those old guys just horde the stuff and keep loading more. And FWIW it wasn't an M16- be careful, that kind of statement scares the foreigners. M16s start at US$16,000. Nobody in Rochester, aside from a few police agencies, have M16s, and they don't take them out because they are worth too much money. So get on that highway two minutes from your home and find some peace.

CrazyOld, there are places in the Great Lakes- even close to home- that I would visit again and again. And there's places I need to visit. The second oldest sailing vessel on GL lies off an island I see annually, but I've not dove it. Charity Shoal is a meteor hit, time to get inside and look around. I want to see the Soo! And everyone speaks highly of Georgian Bay. But yes, you're right- even GL have changed. The border we all ignored for so long is now patrolled by bureaucratic youth who drank the government koolaid. But there are still quiet backwaters and wonderful proprietors who will make your visit comfortable and memorable.

TJ D- you're right- on paper, the world is better. I'm just saying it's not the same. It's not as bright, as shiny, as exciting. We can watch BoobTube from any port, sit on SpaceBook from Lamanai, etc etc. But in Bangkok Ronald McDonald sampeis.

Captdd- Vaha is not a chief. However, I'm sure he's a wonderful man. I do have to say that the hardware store in Neiafu- what is it Ace Hardware?- saved my bacon one day. I'm glad your on a boat, because that Harbin copy of a Twin Otter scared the bejesus out of me every time I had to fly it! Blue Horizons Paradise Isles of the Pacific (1985, Nat. Geo) reflects what I'm talking about- there are photos of Neiafu with wooden ships, horses, and happy, simple people. There's a copy in the library in NUK- I sent it there. But Tonga has its share of problems, most of which you are (still) immune to. The US policy of exporting violent foreigners (e.g., Tongan gang members from LA) exported violence to Tonga. My close friend was shot in NUK, and had to beat the assailant while having a bullet in his body. And you might recall not too long ago a NZ cop who was killed by Tongan cops because they were drunk. Oh, and they burned down Chinatown, trying to emulate Honiara. It still looks like a$$. And the Chinese own the country, and it shows. Clearly, the Tonga I met is not the same Tonga I know now. It's still Tonga, it's still beautiful, but it's not the Tonga I miss. I'd have loved to see the simple beauty of Vava'u in the 1970s.

Flyfish- you are about spot on. Problem is the Pacific has adopted most of the worst elements, and abandoned the best.

Siberian- NICE BOAT! I assume you are in that beautiful little harbor near the ferry. Moorea is a gem. It reminds me of a small Savai'i. But if I tell everyone how beautiful it is, and how inexpensive good wine is, you'll be inundated with tourists. But, one must admit, 1950s Papeete is a long cry from today's experience. The only difference between Papeete and Tampa is language.

Jim- kind of you to chime in. Family situation prevents me from cruising for now, but again, I must admit- I'm not cut out for two week hauls. Your description of the Pacific as "enchanting" is spot on. My point is that it was far more "enchantinger" in the past- even in my lifetime. While my home port has changed, it hasn't changed to the extent that most of the Pacific has. Lae is a no-go. Chuuk is best known for uploading home porn to the internet. Nuku'alofa went from a friendly family town to one loaded with crime and violence. The once-proud Suva is worn worse than my child-beaten carpet. Sydney is loaded with crime- bikies, terrorists, gangs. There are still plenty of gems, I think I said that. Norfolk Island stands proud, probably the only place that has embraced western improvements to truly improve the entire place- yet, oddly, they struggle to get tourists!

I did say that my impressions are likely a result of opened eyes. First time experiences often don't reveal what lies beneath. But still, the Pacific islands are NOT the same. The innocence has been lost.

[double u]

...yes spoiled every where you go...
we want to have GPS, pressurized hot & cold water, coffemakers, electric toilet, dentists, mobile phones, sat-phones, dieselengines, dacronsails, radars, etc. - & those buggers of natives are not content to live like they did before the arrival of the white man!
aaahhh, those lost paradises!!!

[Madwand]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

The US policy of exporting violent foreigners (e.g., Tongan gang members from LA) exported violence to Tonga.

You have a problem with America sending a citizen of Tonga BACK to Tonga? How exactly is this "policy" wrong? You think America should deal with Tonga' s garbage? You think they came here and learned violence?

Just to be clear, America did not send any criminals to Tonga who didn't come from Tonga, as you seem to be implying.

[double u]

so funny that you say that, Madwand!
in 84 a belgian cruiser friend of our's (who apparently did not have all papers for a crew that was going to fly out from Faaa in spic&span- order) got told by immigration in Papeete:
"We are not here to receive the garbage of humanity!"

[Madwand]

Beautiful! Hopefully America will get back to enforcing it's own immigration laws soon.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Madwand

You have a problem with America sending a citizen of Tonga BACK to Tonga? How exactly is this "policy" wrong? You think America should deal with Tonga' s garbage? You think they came here and learned violence?

Just to be clear, America did not send any criminals to Tonga who didn't come from Tonga, as you seem to be implying.

Where did I say I have a problem exporting violent criminals? Where did I say the policy is flawed? Why are you questioning what I think about crime control and learned violence? I made a simple, factual statement. The cause and reasoning for the activity is outside the scope of my address.

Good lord, some people will read whatever they want.

So, now, I'll give you something to complain about. And I will throw in my colorful observation of the situation. That should PO just about everyone.

Men of Tongan birth who have been convicted of violent crimes in USA are exported back to Tonga upon completion of their prison sentences. In being re-imported back to Tonga they brought their gang mentality and disposition for crime and violence, marking an abrupt change from the friendly, warm nature of Tonga, inclusive of the capital Nuku'alofa.

In fact, these men DID learn violence in USA- largely in California, particularly LA. It's all well documented and well studied. Most came to USA as youngsters, and faced discrimination, and as they became teens, abuse by black and Hispanic gangs. Upon uprooting parts of the family, the Tongans in LA lost the cohesive family structure that made Tongans so warm and wonderful. As a result, the youths lost guidance. So facing lack of family and abuse by gangs, the Tongas did what youths everywhere do- form their own gang. And, now we have observed, quite successfully. The Tongas are pretty bright, and pretty damned big, so it was a receipe for a problem.

Should America deal with Tonga's problem? Well, I say it's an American problem. I'll go further, since you invoked opinion. It's not MY problem- we don't have gangs where I live, we don't allow it. The Tonga problem children were raised in a crappy environment called Los Angeles. In a region that won't address their gang problems, or crime, and cry their snowflake hearts out when somebody tries to do something about it. I don't know who decided to export foreign-born convicts, nor do I know if it really makes a difference in USA. But it did make a difference in Tonga.

Note I say "did" not "does" make a difference in Tonga. Because this started some 20 years ago. The new generation of LA-based Tongan gangs was born in LA, so no export, they are staying. And now they have channel partners in Tonga. And Fiji, and Samoa.

I don't blame the Tongans. They moved to USA to seek a better life. Nobody foresaw the ramifications on the youngsters. If we have to blame anybody I'll blame the citizens of LA county who coddle criminals and permitted an environment like that to begin with.

[Madwand]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Where did I say I have a problem exporting violent criminals? Where did I say the policy is flawed? Why are you questioning what I think about crime control and learned violence? I made a simple, factual statement. The cause and reasoning for the activity is outside the scope of my address.

Do you think you had to say you have a problem with something when you are bitching about that thing? You are blaming America for Tonga's problems, but you don't have a problem with it? That's interesting. When I don't have a problem with a thing, I don't bother saying anything about it. So you like to bitch about things you don't have a problem with...I understand now.

As far as the sh1thole known as L.A. is concerned, it could use a wall around it. But America is supposed to be responsible because foreigners bring their kids here and let them get into gangs? Talk about a snowflake attitide. Parents are responsible for their kids behavior, not the U.S. government.

[Kim Gregory]

Tetepare, 'there are places in the Great Lakes- even close to home- that I would visit again and again. And there's places I need to visit. '

You will like Wilson New York then, unspoiled by today's standards, you will think you have dropped back into the 1960's. I was amazed at their combo laundromat - art gallery store. - no employees in the place! Wilson Yacht club feels like home.

Tetepare, TJ, if you think the pacific was good in the 90's, read what it was like in the 70's. Here is the logs of my boat sailing there with the first owners.
https://sites.google.com/site/dougla...ome/kemanabook