Chagos - Bad News for Cruisers !

[Dunkers]

Guys, Noonsite have amended their website. Its £100 per months not £500 as they originally reported - a bit of a difference. If that is for the whole boat irrespective of how many crew are onboard its not too excessive. The only difficulty is being able to pay in advance. Do you pay at a British embassy somewhere without knowing your exact ETA? Perhaps good sense will prevail and they will amend the regulation so that you pay on arrival so that those who perhaps didn't plan to call but may have to due to adverse weather or gear failure won't be arrested.

[Pa La O La]

Ah- - - - the voice of reason. Good analogy! And so true of how the military works. They always deal in the worst case scenario. Oh and yes it seems to be over the deep end. But if they get it wrong like 9-11 there is one hell of a price to pay. Of course there are those who say it was the dark side black opps folks in our government who planed all that so they could wage war on the oil rich lamby sweet hearts of the Middle East. Oh and the holocaust didn’t happen either so they say. Any way - - - Diego Garcia was a big place for the military persistence way back when I was a member of the evil empire. (73-77). Been there got the T-shirt! I think they call that a forward presents. Staging area so if it alls goes south we don’t have to loose thousands of young lives to take a few small islands to get a base near the bad guys to bring the fight to their front door and not ours. I think something like that might have happened before.

Glad to here the cost isn’t as bad as first said. Though it still seems a bit steep. Boat will be paid for in less then two years and I’ve been thinking about the Med. Full time cruising then & I want to go back but not on a big gray boat this time. What I need to find is a warm place to spend the winter but I don’t want to be where I feel I’m wearing a target on my back because of my boats registry country. Some places seem just to crazy.


I too hope they take another look at the policy. I'm sure it will take a lot of prodding. But again money and local preasure have a way of making enough stink that it will work that all will be able to profit from our wish to spend our cash there.
Fair winds and calm seas to all

Gary

[Dunkers]

Gary

You are right, we all hate the impositions put on us by the military in peace time but when the waste matter hits the rotary ventilator we ask why they didn't know it was going to happen and do something to prevent it. We are, or were, at the beck and call of our parliamentary/presidential masters and couldn't pick or choose where we ended up and who we were going to upset! As a consequence of this we do have to be careful in the choice of places we visit whether we fly the Stars and Stripes or the Red/Blue ensign. Still, there are still lots of places where we are welcome and generally ordinary folk are hospitable.

That said, if you are going into the Med I was just reading, quite literally, a blog from a Scottish couple who are cruising the Med now, so its relevant and up to date. Have a look at The Web Log from Alba Voyager it makes you want to head over there right now

Fair winds
David

[David_Old_Jersey]

At the risk of having a "Sullivan moment" .............

Originally Posted by Pa La O La

Glad to here the cost isn’t as bad as first said.

I guess it all depends on how folk define "Cost" - some folk do count cost in more than simply dollars and as someone who comes from a small island I am perhaps a bit more sensitive than others to the notion of being rounded up and deported for someone else's conveniance.

but I don’t want to be where I feel I’m wearing a target on my back because of my boats registry country. Some places seem just to crazy.

See previous comments.

all will be able to profit from our wish to spend our cash there.

See previous comments.


One thing I was a bit wary of when joining this forum was getting involved in any political stuff (I can get that anywhere) but some attitudes and comments I do find hard to let go........

[hellosailor]

Gary-
"What I need to find is a warm place to spend the winter but I don’t want to be where I feel I’m wearing a target on my back because of my boats registry country. "

Regardless of your boat registry, you will be spotted and ID'ed as an American no matter where you step off the boat, unless you're planning to be "on stage" and passing as someone else all the time. Might as well be proud of it (we've done enough to be proud of) and admit that while the US isn't perfect and we freely exercise our right to bitch and moan (found only in the first draft of the Declaration of Rights, Jefferson removed it under protest<G>) we still have a much better government than many others do. Not perfect, but the paint ain't dried yet and we're still working on it. A lot of the world can't quite grasp the concept that we may be terribly upset with things--but we still don't stage armed coupes to throw them down.

If you have to worry about being targeted, odds are you don't want to be there among the savages anyway.

First time I'd heard of DG was in the late 60's when IIRC it was used as the forward base for B52s, and the DoD decided an isolated and fully secured base in the pacific was a Damned Good Thing to have. Unlike the Phillipines, or Japan, or any of our other populated conquests and war prizes where the locals can make life too interesting for military purposes. So I very much understand why they'd want to keep it isolated.

What I can't understand, is just who pissed off Congress so badly that they lost NAS Bermuda. Unless that was part of the whole deal, and we somehow traded "a piece of this island in exchange for a batch of those islands" with the UK. Still sounds like a bad trade though.<G>

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Gary-
First time I'd heard of DG was in the late 60's when IIRC it was used as the forward base for B52s, and the DoD decided an isolated and fully secured base in the pacific was a Damned Good Thing to have.<G>

I don't believe you will find Chagos in the Pacific.

Try 7*18'17.17S,72*24'45.88E

IMHO, one of the most beautiful places on Earth and well worth the cost of admission.

[hellosailor]

Trim-
"I don't believe you will find Chagos in the Pacific. "
I wasn't talking about Chagos. "DG" is Diego Garcia. Gary mentioned Diego Garcia, I responded about it. Chagos? You can call it the Indian Ocean, for most of us that's still close enough to the Pacific, especially when that's about as close as you'll be allowed to come.<G>

My geography was learned in an earlier day, when lots of places on today's maps didn't exist. India was a sub-continent, nothing "south asian" about it. And Bangladesh was still "those swamps the poorest of the poor outcasts live in." Micronesia? Chagos? Might as well play 52-pickup, my map still has "Persia" and two Germanies on it.<G>

[Trim50]

Imagine that you needed a place where you could test new weapon systems and your base in the desert was no longer so secure. I would think that a secluded atoll with a large protected harbor would be just the ticket.

[Pa La O La]

Trim50,

I lived in Ft.WaltonBeach where the worlds largest Air force base (Eglin) is located. They test weapons there all the time. That is what the base is all about. No secret there. After we lost the Vieces PR (SP) they picked up some of the slack for a place to play (bomb training). They take the beach there now. The big bunker busters were developed there too. Don't need no stink'n Atoll for that. It’s the forward base thing plain and simple. There is a huge range(s) just out side Las Vegas as well and they do a lot of testing there as well and a lot of that can not be discussed because of its classification. Just need to know stuff, nothing sinister or covert.

Dunkers,

Thanks for the site I'll give it a look.

Smile it's good for us all. sorry if I got touchy. I don't like every thing we have done as a country in the past or in the present but I do love the country I have proudly served. No surprise there - ahee.

Gary

[dana-tenacity]

-but we still don't stage armed coupes to throw them down.??????????????????
Can we spell Iraq?

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by Pa La O La

Don't need no stink'n Atoll for that. It’s the forward base thing plain and simple.

Yeah, those Marshall Islands didn't see any weapons development either.

and FYI, it isn't that forward unless you're planning on hitting Southern India or Australia. We have plenty other bases further forward.

[hellosailor]

"and FYI, it isn't that forward unless"
I guess forward is a relative term. Using something central to the mainland US, like Kansas, as the "rearmost" area of the US mainland, how far away is it to Diego Garcia? About 9300NM, the same distance that Kansas is from most of central China or large parts of Russia. Basing B52s, conventional bombers, on DG would cut the distance of that run from 9300NM (Kansas to China) down to 3200NM.
For a B52 crew with a maximum air time of some 50 hours (last official numbers I saw) at some 500 knots cruising speed...Using DG as a "forward base" turns a 36 hour round trip flight into a 12 hour round-trip flight.
I'd say that makes DG a pretty good "forward base" that cuts 2/3 of the flight time off any strategic bomb run on that side of the globe, as compared to operating out of the heartlands. Incidentally, there is no bathroom facility on the B52, the crews really prefer not to do 50-hour flights. No ten thousand dollar coffeepots, either.
We may have other bases that are further forward--but how many of them have such a wonderfully wide security perimeter? Lesson from the Roman times, usually and often painfully forgotten by the US military. First, secure a perimeter. An island in the middle of nowhere meets that spec a whole lot better than anything "closer". Especially when you don't have to worry about indigenous peoples and governments raising a big fuss, revolting, or soliciting your troops.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Especially when you don't have to worry about indigenous peoples and governments raising a big fuss

I am sure the inhabitants are only too glad to have made the sacrifice to continue the spread of peace and democracy from 30,000 Feet through the bomb doors of a B52.


The Axis of Evil vs the Arc of Stupidity - part III due soon on a TV screen near you.

Lesson from the Roman times

Many lessons to be learnt from Roman times...........

[GordMay]

Interesting as I find the diverse opinions expressed, I don’t think that a military-socio-political discussion serves the purposes of the CruisersForum.
FWIW,
Gord

[David_Old_Jersey]

Yes mum.

But, they started it.......