First Tunisia . . . Now Egypt ?

[Captain Bill]

It is much easier to overthrow a hated regime than to build a better government to take it's place. While I understand the current jubilation in Egypt, I think I'll save my congratulations until I see that what they get in its place is an actual improvement. I have an Iranian friend who supported the overthrow of the shah in 1979, but now lives in the US because he follows the Zoroastrian religion. So much for freedom.

[IdoraKeeper]

Perhaps it will still be a place to cruise to for cruisers who appreciate the culture. I doubt I would find it appealing, too dry and poor. I think I will stick to places where it's real wet and cold. It seems likely that things will be unpedictable in that region for quite some time.

Todd

[h20man]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

It is much easier to overthrow a hated regime than to build a better government to take it's place. While I understand the current jubilation in Egypt, I think I'll save my congratulations until I see that what they get in its place is an actual improvement. I have an Iranian friend who supported the overthrow of the shah in 1979, but now lives in the US because he follows the Zoroastrian religion. So much for freedom.

I absolutely agree.. I just have problems with descriptions of "rioting" after the fall of Mubarek. It is not yet better, but ..... Egypt is not going to hell in a handbasket..... yet... and with a great deal of work... the Egyptians will build a better system.

I am VERY impressed with the American Founding Fathers. Where after the revolution they sat down and designed the Constitution. Brilliant execution. It is not perfect.. but... the best out there in practice (in my opinion). May others be inspired....

[Whimsy]

Originally Posted by h20man

...Can you please identify your sources?

Originally Posted by h20man

Technology has enabled people to communicate, and dictators use the inability of free communication to rule by fear and intimidation...

I agree on the importance of allowing people to have unlimited freedom to access the intenet and other media.

Below's the relevant news I've seen in the past couple hours.

Like I said, we'll see what actually happens over the next few years...

I think history shows its wise not to underestimate how far wrong this kind of thing can go, nor to underestimate how strong the pull of a power vacuum is to those (many) who seek power for idealistic causes, or just for its own sake, and almost always at the expense of the Liberty of the people.

I wish the 80 million people of Egypt all the good fortune in the world at ending up with Liberty in the long run.

From the AP today:

CAIRO -- The ruling military pledged Saturday to eventually hand power to an elected civilian government...

...Some protesters not linked to the coalition said they would stay camped on Tahrir Square, and it was not immediately clear when the downtown area would be cleared.

...the main opposition coalition -- a loosely based grouping of youth and traditional opposition groups -- said it would end its main protest in Cairo's Tahrir, or Liberation, Square but would call for weekly demonstrations after Friday prayers.

...Protesters have called for dramatic steps to ensure Egypt moves to a real democracy after nearly 30 years of autocratic rule under Mubarak and his ruling party. Protest organizers have called for the dissolving of parliament -- which is almost entirely made up of ruling party lawmakers -- the forming of a new, broad-based transitional government and creation of a committee to either amend the constitution or totally rewrite it.

The Armed Forces Supreme Council, a body of the topmost generals that now rules Egypt, has not said whether it will carry out any of those steps.

...The emphasis in the military statement was on keeping the state and economy functioning after the turmoil of the past three weeks, which were a heavy blow to Egypt's economy. For days, many businesses and shops were closed, much of Cairo's population of 18 million stayed home under heavy curfew, and foreign tourists -- one of the top sources of revenues -- fled the country.

This week, even as businesses began to reopen on a wide scale, labor strikes erupted around the country, many at state industries or branches of the bureaucracy.

...The statement did not address when a new government would be formed.

[Tofoa.Felix]

I guess we can but live in hope. And hope that the military is with the people (interesting view that all, I think, Egyptian males serve 1-2 years in the Army, so good community links means the Army is unlikely to turn on the people). And hope that modern free communications prevent the imposition of a new repressive regime. And hope that the powerful one day learn that all people want is a fair share of the world's cake, an income on which they can live, and the respect to have their opinion heard and considered. If that can happen in Egypt (and elsewhere perhaps) there IS hope for a better future.

[Whimsy]

And reading this AP story again, something seems a little fishy:

"For days, many businesses and shops were closed, much of Cairo's population of 18 million stayed home under heavy curfew..."

But:
"Some protesters... said they would stay camped on Tahrir Square, and it was not immediately clear when the downtown area would be cleared"

And:
"...the main opposition coalition -- a loosely based grouping of youth and traditional opposition groups..."

Is it just me, or does this make it sound like most folks are under "heavy curfew" but a select few were/are allowed to remain "camped" out to "protest".

Could just be the way its reported... Maybe everything there is really just ducky...

[hummingway]

The topic of this thread is the situation in Egypt and it is in the Destinations forum. Please try and stay on topic. If you wish to discuss politics I'm sure there are many forums that cater to that particular bent.

Thanks.

[h20man]

Originally Posted by Whimsy

And reading this AP story again, something seems a little fishy:

"For days, many businesses and shops were closed, much of Cairo's population of 18 million stayed home under heavy curfew..."

But:
.... <snip>

Could just be the way its reported... Maybe everything there is really just ducky...

Whimsy,

I did not see any reports in the stuff you quoted about rioting. There was violence towards the beggining, when mubareks police thugs went through the crowd on camels and horses... but the amazing thing was that the protestors were focused on being NONVIOLENT and not rioting...

accoding to al jazeera AJE - Al Jazeera English the protestors were now even cleaning the anti mubarek grafitti... Cairo cleans up after revolution - Middle East - Al Jazeera English

this is also on cnn Egypt's military says it is committed to democracy, foreign treaties - CNN.com the noted about the clean up " .... "It's time to start rebuilding the country," Kheireldin said, pointing to the hundreds of volunteers armed with brooms who are sweeping away the debris left by the sit-in. .....


I guess the main issue I had was with the picture of something worse. I hope and pray that the majority of Egyptians are stepping into the vacuum as responsible citizens. Of course there will always be outlying elements...

for " Every country has prisons.. and they are not just for foreigners... "

[Whimsy]

Watched the vid. Al Jazerra made it sound very nice there.

I don't doubt business owners would be out cleaning up the mess left by the mobs.

I wonder how many people cleaning graffitti actually sprayed any? How many people picking up trash actually tossed any?

Like I said, I wish them all the best. Time, likely several years, will tell how this all plays out, who takes power, how they rule, and if the people end up better off or worse off than they were last year and the year before - it they get Liberty or tyranny, or what combination thereof.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Gotta be careful what you wish for - no "corruption" won't make the cost of the Suez Canal cheaper. Just that the money will go via the Govt. and ain't no service ever got cheaper doing that.

After all, the Suez costs to run and is a business - not a charitable facility for vacationing foreigners.


My guess is that Egypt will get a bit more Muslim - but won't greatly affect Foreigners (economy too reliant on the West), as long as yer Missus ain't pictured on top of a Pyramid with her tits out . or you with yer kn............

Can't say I am too bothered. Was never going to emigrate Besides, we seem to get on OK when our countries are led by Religous Nutters. and ours even have Nukes and travel the world killing people over theological differences. My bet is that the Egyptians will just carry on killing mainly there own people......but am curious as to how many from the last 30 years will now be dug up

[simonmd]

Now reports of similar in Bahrain, Jordan and Libya. This is looking like becoming a domino effect.....

[barnakiel]

For those of you in Marocco or planning to visit soon please note that there is also much saying about things brewing up there. Given the tension in West Sahara it is a very likely scenario.

b.

[davefromoregon]

I can imagine the Saudi royal family quaking in their boots right now. Especially with Bahrain on the verge of revolution, Morocco not far off, and people in Yemen is not far off either. Heck even Iran and Libya have seen recent demonstrations in the street.

[atoll]

wondering if aden is still a viable stop,due to the unrest,heard on bbc a few days ago that a protester was shot dead in aden.

djbouti still sounds okay and massawa , asab. also suakin and port sudan.

suez seems also to have calmed down,should be yachts arriving very soon in s red sea area.

any vessels on passage or there,it would be good to have a report.....

[simonmd]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

For those of you in Marocco or planning to visit soon please note that there is also much saying about things brewing up there. Given the tension in West Sahara it is a very likely scenario.

b.

Somehow I doubt it, I know quite a few Morroccans (im only 20 miles from there) and the general feeling I got was that the new king is much respected and the country as a whole has improved vastly over the last 10 years or so since he took over. Having said that, you never know but I do hope not.