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Joh.Ghurt · 06-09-2021, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

[...]I think that there are plenty of women who genuinely want to become useful crew members and are willing to learn what that takes.

I absolutely agree with you on this, however on one hand those are in competition of the deck-decoration and skippers need to weed them out more. On the other had, the female sailors encounter wherever they go the assumption they're deck decoration and the presumption they'll hop into the skipper's bunk. As this thread illustrates, that's no fun either.

CarinaPDX · 06-09-2021, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Men's colleges were sued. Women's colleges were not.

This is not even close to the truth. I was there, at an elite, Ivy League college (Dartmouth) when they decided to admit women (1971 IIRC). It was our decision, based on votes of the faculty, student body, and alumni (and finally the Board of Trustees) - lawsuits had nothing to do with it. Most elite schools are private schools and as such are free to act as they will. The few lawsuits relating to admitting women were from alumni that didn't want to see things changed (and I don't recall any at my alma mater although there certainly was pushback from a large segment of the alumni). The elite women's colleges experienced the same winds of change but many felt that their students benefited by the all-women nature of the schools, as proven by studies over the years, and decided to continue their mission.

Personally I felt that the all-male environment was unhealthy and voted for admission of women. I was disappointed in the battle royal that occurred when traditionalists misbehaved towards women in the early years but it seems that is finally history, or at least I hope so. I did not, and do not, feel the same way about all-women's colleges. I think they have been a great asset for developing women's potential. As I said before, someday gender may not matter but that time is not here yet.

Greg

Chotu · 06-09-2021, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

This is not even close to the truth. I was there, at an elite, Ivy League college (Dartmouth) when they decided to admit women (1971 IIRC). It was our decision, based on votes of the faculty, student body, and alumni (and finally the Board of Trustees) - lawsuits had nothing to do with it. Most elite schools are private schools and as such are free to act as they will. The few lawsuits relating to admitting women were from alumni that didn't want to see things changed (and I don't recall any at my alma mater although there certainly was pushback from a large segment of the alumni). The elite women's colleges experienced the same winds of change but many felt that their students benefited by the all-women nature of the schools, as proven by studies over the years, and decided to continue their mission.

Personally I felt that the all-male environment was unhealthy and voted for admission of women. I was disappointed in the battle royal that occurred when traditionalists misbehaved towards women in the early years but it seems that is finally history, or at least I hope so. I did not, and do not, feel the same way about all-women's colleges. I think they have been a great asset for developing women's potential. As I said before, someday gender may not matter but that time is not here yet.

Greg

And some schools went the other way. An old high school friend of mine was among the first few guys admitted the first year to Colby-Sawyer, an all girls school that isn’t very far from Dartmouth.

It was a LOT of fun going to visit. Lol

CarinaPDX · 06-09-2021, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chotu

And some schools went the other way. An old high school friend of mine was among the first few guys admitted the first year to Colby-Sawyer, an all girls school that isn’t very far from Dartmouth.

Before then it was called Colby Junior College, known as a place Dartmouth alums sent their daughters to meet Dartmouth students with the hope of matrimony. It was not generally a very healthy relationship between the two schools and I think Colby admitting men was a good development for them as well. There are lots of tales to tell, but mostly they are sad ones - especially from a more modern sensitivity. Glad we have moved on, at least a bit.

Greg

Auspicious · 07-09-2021, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

This is not even close to the truth. I was there, at an elite, Ivy League college (Dartmouth) when they decided to admit women (1971 IIRC).

I was a few years behind you and I remember a steady stream of lawsuits. VMI was one of the loudest ones. Even little Webb where I went to school was threatened (the response was "we aren't a men's school - we an engineering school - no woman has ever applied").

I remember Vassar admitting men for the first time. That was a financial decision IIRC - not enough students.

I turned to Google for citations but the results are overwhelmingly recent Title IX lawsuits.

CarinaPDX · 07-09-2021, 01:35

Yes, VMI and other state-supported schools were in another boat entirely. With few exceptions the Ivies and other elite schools were private, and a lot more difficult targets for lawsuits. But they were also on the leading edge of admitting women due to internal pressures, not lawsuits. In our case it was the alumni threatening lawsuits to stop admissions of women. Ultimately the college charters and the Boards of Trustees were the determinants. And the Seven Sisters and other elite women's colleges were free to choose either way, but the times they were a changin' and there were fewer women wanting to attend an all-women's school. Fortunately some of the truly great institutions, such as Wellesley and Mount Holyoke, made it through as women's colleges to this day.

Greg

Auspicious · 07-09-2021, 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Wellesley and Mount Holyoke

I remember "Smith to bed, Holyoke to wed, and Amherst girls to talk to." Lots of PHTs. Different times and not better.

CarinaPDX · 07-09-2021, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I remember "Smith to bed, Holyoke to wed, and Amherst girls to talk to." Lots of PHTs. Different times and not better.

Errr- what? I'm pretty good at working out abbreviations but "PHT" doesn't compute. Isn't on my go-to source either: https://www.allacronyms.com/PHT . Care to enlighten me?

Greg

Auspicious · 08-09-2021, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Errr- what? I'm pretty good at working out abbreviations but "PHT" doesn't compute. Isn't on my go-to source either: https://www.allacronyms.com/PHT . Care to enlighten me?

More my/our parents generation. PHT = "putting husband through." Young couple get married, wife quits school and goes to work, husband graduates, goes to work, they start family. "She earned her PHT."