Crew Available: Crewing as a female. Sketchy vs. Otherwise

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

I’m not that good with databases, but if anyone is and has a little free time I’d love to know the number of women taken as sea slaves / raped at sea Vs number of boat theft/fraud/small theft/title theft/title fraud

For the women who think these skippers are going to throw their lives into the fire, commit felonies and live in a cage or on the run from the law just to kidnap them, you’re not that pretty or interesting, step away from the romance novel and the glass of rose wine.

...this type of thing is just a pet peeve of mine.

SalingSue, Yep, evidently this IS a "pet peeve" of yours, because the OP did not express a concern or any wild eyed terror about any of those dangers you write about. Nor did she say she thought the potential skipper was a kidnapper, rapist, or felon. Where did you get that?

She just didn't understand the guy's reluctance to answer her question (whether it is a stupid question or whatever) and his rather weird answer about somebody getting a loan against his boat. She asked if that was a normal response. And then you went off on her. (whew!)

If you are around cruisers much you've undoubtedly heard of unpleasant and all together too common experiences people (women) have with single handing men. Everything from demanding and abusive to sexually predative. There are plenty of wierdos and if you are trying to sign on as crew you have to be careful.

I think some of the things you are saying about it, like the following comment: "because [you think that] YOUR baby (or you) are THAT desirable." are real red flags about where you are coming from.

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by wingssail

SalingSue, Yep, evidently this IS a "pet peeve" of yours, because the OP did not express a concern or any wild eyed terror about any of those dangers you write about. Nor did she say she thought the potential skipper was a kidnapper, rapist, or felon. Where did you get that?

When she asked for information that didn’t match her original stated internet of getting
“information available that could be used to track me down in an emergency situation.”

Registration number does ZERO for that, MMSI on the other hand would make sense for this, and I’d imagine would be freely given.

It’s a need to know,
if I’m having a pair of pants made my measurements are fair game, my social security number IS NOT
if I’m talking to a loan officer for a construction loan, my SS is fair game, my crotch depth IS NOT

Originally Posted by wingssail

She just didn't understand the guy's reluctance to answer her question (whether it is a stupid question or whatever) and his rather weird answer about somebody getting a loan against his boat. She asked if that was a normal response. And then you went off on her. (whew!)

There were a number of things she didn’t understand
And yes, I did correct her, in the age of smears and frivolous lawsuits, calling someone sketchy who invites you on their boat, trusts you with their boat, and to a extent their life, to ask a for inappropriate information and write a post up like the guy was creeping on her, that crap needs to be stomped out.

She asked a stupid question, his response was stupid too (but slightly less), if she was educated on what “information available that could be used to track me down in an emergency situation.” actually was, this whole thing could have been avoided, if the skipper was a better mind reader or had more patience he could have said “what do you want that for, do you mean my MMSI number”?

Originally Posted by wingssail

If you are around cruisers much you've undoubtedly heard of unpleasant and all together too common experiences people (women) have with single handing men. Everything from demanding and abusive to sexually predative. There are plenty of wierdos and if you are trying to sign on as crew you have to be careful.

Not really, I have heard of some disagreements, 95% of the time both sides had more than a little to drink and both sides blew matters WAY out of the realm of reality.

Some guys are creeps sure, just as some women are looking to get rich, but that ain’t the case, this was a young woman who asked for information that didn’t match her stated intention and wigged out a boat owner in the days of fishing emails, scammer phone calls, etc.

[

Originally Posted by wingssail

I think some of the things you are saying about it, like the following comment: "because [you think that] YOUR baby (or you) are THAT desirable." are real red flags about where you are coming from.

I agree, I’m coming from the real world, I don’t believe everything the TV tells me, I have worked at a non profit to help the disenfranchised enough to get the difference between career victims and people dealt a bad hand, and I have worked enough with people living comfortably to know the difference from flash and substance.


This should have been a really simple topic

She asked for a bit of info that didn’t match what she claimed she intended to use that info for, call skipper back and explain she was asking for the MMSI, go from there.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

When she asked for information that didn’t match her original stated internet of getting
“information available that could be used to track me down in an emergency situation.”

Registration number does ZERO for that, MMSI on the other hand would make sense for this, and I’d imagine would be freely given.

It’s a need to know,
if I’m having a pair of pants made my measurements are fair game, my social security number IS NOT
if I’m talking to a loan officer for a construction loan, my SS is fair game, my crotch depth IS NOT



There were a number of things she didn’t understand
And yes, I did correct her, in the age of smears and frivolous lawsuits, calling someone sketchy who invites you on their boat, trusts you with their boat, and to a extent their life, to ask a for inappropriate information and write a post up like the guy was creeping on her, that crap needs to be stomped out.

She asked a stupid question, his response was stupid too (but slightly less), if she was educated on what “information available that could be used to track me down in an emergency situation.” actually was, this whole thing could have been avoided, if the skipper was a better mind reader or had more patience he could have said “what do you want that for, do you mean my MMSI number”?




Not really, I have heard of some disagreements, 95% of the time both sides had more than a little to drink and both sides blew matters WAY out of the realm of reality.

Some guys are creeps sure, just as some women are looking to get rich, but that ain’t the case, this was a young woman who asked for information that didn’t match her stated intention and wigged out a boat owner in the days of fishing emails, scammer phone calls, etc.

[

I agree, I’m coming from the real world, I don’t believe everything the TV tells me, I have worked at a non profit to help the disenfranchised enough to get the difference between career victims and people dealt a bad hand, and I have worked enough with people living comfortably to know the difference from flash and substance.


This should have been a really simple topic

She asked for a bit of info that didn’t match what she claimed she intended to use that info for, call skipper back and explain she was asking for the MMSI, go from there.

I’ve never cleared into a foreign port using my MMSI, I have used my documentation/registration number..........information that could be used to locate her/the vessel.

[JPA Cate]

SailingSue,

The problem is whom to believe. if you accept that Shawna's question is ingenuous,
then the answer to her is something like, "refusal to answer what is to you a reasonable question MAY be an attempt to gain mastery over female crew from the outset," and therefore, heeding your instinct [as a woman] is a wise thing.

Sorry, mate, I don't know what your true agenda is, but it does not appear to me to be to help Shawna.

Ann (my real name, by the way, not hiding behind a misleading avatar) Actually, this might be why you are experiencing resistance. As someone who identifies as "gender male" on your profile, "Sailing Sue" seems contradictory.

Ann

[Wotname]

Ann, this may help... ()

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHPuY88Ry4

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by zengirl

Regardless of why he won't give the information. It doesn't matter. Trust your instincts 100%. The fact you posted here for this, to me, means you have a doubt. If you have the tiniest hesitation ...pass on any person you feel this from. Good looking women have a lot of **** to deal with when it comes to men. So always, like you're doing, get all the info you can, and trust your instincts when you've gone over it all.

Good one, Zengirl.

+1 from LittleWing77

[Moontide]

I often sail with women crew. When going offshore I take copies of all passports and email to a family member along with a "float plan" which includes description, VHF and EPRIB MMSI's, comms devices on board, InReach contact info,picture of boat, estimated schedule along with copies of passports and emergency contact info for everyone on board. I also include contact info for a couple of knowledgable friends who would know what to do if the proverbial s__t hit the fan.



This complete list also goes to a friend or family member of each crew. Have never had to use the info but it is there if needed.



If desired I also provide the crewmembers with my personal info (passport, a family contact, etc.) Have never been concerned about the info being misused.


I do find video calls are a great help in interviewing potential crew. For people I have never met there is always have an understanding either party can change their mind if it doesn't feel right when we finally do meet. The only time that right has been exercised was when the other person was "unable" to do a video call. Should have been a red flag.


As far as the OP, the one thing I tell everyone is trust your gut. If it doesn't feel right then its not worth the angst and another ride will come along.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

When she asked for information that didn’t match her original stated internet of getting
“information available that could be used to track me down in an emergency situation.”

Registration number does ZERO for that, MMSI on the other hand would make sense for this, and I’d imagine would be freely given.

You're making the assumption that the guy would give up the MMSI too. Just for kicks I punched my MMSI into an MMSI search: https://www.itu.int/mmsapp/ShipStation/list
and it gave my name and country (which can also be deduced from the MMSI prefix) - went into the country's registration query site, and was able to get my address and Official Number (registration). As StuM said, this is public record stuff.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for information that would tend to verify the identity of the boat-owner/master/whatever and give that to one's family prior to departing; this is a sensible precaution for anyone, but particularly so for a young lady.

[Dogscout]

Originally Posted by Shawna

Hi everyone!!
Haven't been on the site in a while. I have had a few crewing experiences and hope to keep them going. I've had to pass a couple up because of not feeling comfortable with the amount of information available that could be used to track me down in an emergency situation.
I've been told to give your family ashore the registration number and name of the vessel as well as the boat owners name, and any other info available.
My question to all in the know is:
Is it a red flag if they don't want to give your family their boats registration number?
I had a boat owner tell me someone could take a loan out against his boat and screw up his credit, but to my understanding, proof of ownership would be needed for that. Should I try to convince him of this or just quietly take my leave? Most had no problem surrendering their number. I haven't yet taken a trip with someone who refuses. Is there any legitimacy to this boat owners claim? Your input is greatly appreciated!!

Just quietly leave. Seriously there are far to many nutcases out there and you should always walk away when it does not feel right. All of that information is publicly available and if some clown starts making up stories like that in their mind, then I would not want anything to do with them.

Its not rational thought, do you want to be on a boat with a captain who cannot think rationally or critically. Walk away

[250224]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

You're making the assumption that the guy would give up the MMSI too

Why wouldn't he? A large part of the discussion centered around the question if withholding a register number is sketchy or not. While I didn't like the (bogus) argument about "take a loan out against his boat" I sympathize with the idea to only provide relevant information and respect data scarcity. Relatives need to know who I am and if I can be trusted, but don't need to store (forever) my official boat documents (except MMSI, communication details).

[offtopic: Ann mentioned about not hiding behind an avatar. IMHO this is a bygone era were one could publish more freely. Nowadays everything is being tracked and aggregated and monetarized, thus a certain compartmentalization is a must]

In the (very nice) post from Moontide there is no mention of a register number but of passport, family, MMSI, ..., makes totally sense. There was no more posts by the OP but I suppose she is talking about (much) smaller vessels than Lagoons and establishing trust may be more difficult.

[250224]

Originally Posted by Dogscout

Seriously there are far to many nutcases out there

Any numbers?

From my gut feeling I'd say there are many more nutcases in big cities. I'm sure they exist but I have yet to meet a nutcase on water... to too

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by blu3534

There was no more posts by the OP but I suppose she is talking about (much) smaller vessels than Lagoons and establishing trust may be more difficult.

Reminds me of something I heard about that 50 shade gray movie.

Super rich man chaining women up and spanking them in his mansion, women view as erotic and romantic.

Clone the same person, but now works at a gas station, chaining women up and spanking them in his double wide, women view and creepy and dirty.

I have no dog in this fight, but it’s quite funny, almost makes me want to go take a few anthropology classes.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I don't think the US is the only country that does this. Larger Canadian boats can be federally registered (Scorpius is) and the requirement is that the number be "carved into the main beam" or some other permanent internal part of the boat in 4" numbers. In Scorpius, being steel, it is carved into the ceiling in the head, and when we were considering her for the charter trade, Transport Canada approved it. There is no requirement for it to be on the outside of the vessel as, for registered vessels (as opposed to licensed vessels) the name and port of registry (which ARE required to be publicly displayed on the stern of the vessel) provide a unique identifier.

I suspect this system was originally concocted by the British, is now specified in international law, and is followed in every country.

In FInland it's visible registration number on both sides of the vessel. No carving whatsoever. In Sweden there's no mandatory registration at all so no numbers either, thou there's voluntary registration possibility..

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

Reminds me of something I heard about that 50 shade gray movie.

Super rich man chaining women up and spanking them in his mansion, women view as erotic and romantic.

Clone the same person, but now works at a gas station, chaining women up and spanking them in his double wide, women view and creepy and dirty.

I have no dog in this fight, but it’s quite funny, almost makes me want to go take a few anthropology classes.

No one actually thinks it’s romantic in either case in real life.

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I don't think that is the issue. The reluctance to answer such a mundane question indicates to me a paranoid personality. Find a skipper who is open and transparent, friendly and not worried about a conspiracy to steal his boat.

This.