Northwest Passage

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

I did mean extinct. What I mean by it is the ongoing process of the diminishing extent and volume of the sea ice in polar regions. In few decades the extent has gone down (just approximates here) about 10% during winter and 40% during summer. The volume loss is even more closer to 70%. If the Arctic will be free of ice during summer after a while is there any "arctic sea ice" anymore? In my opinion no, as winter ice is not multiyear ice instead it just seasonal ice as in Baltic or inland lakes. The same is true with permafrost thou much slower process. So when there will be no multiyear ice and no permafrost there's no Arctic either as it's the very thing defining Arctic.

the Russians would disagree with that assessment however .
Now if you zoom into the nwp you will see they also have the ice there listed as fast ice
ÅÑÈÌÎ ÀÀÍÈÈ â€¢ Îáçîðíûå ëåäîâûå êàðòû ÑËÎ

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

I did mean extinct. What I mean by it is the ongoing process of the diminishing extent and volume of the sea ice in polar regions. In few decades the extent has gone down (just approximates here) about 10% during winter and 40% during summer. The volume loss is even more closer to 70%. If the Arctic will be free of ice during summer after a while is there any "arctic sea ice" anymore? In my opinion no, as winter ice is not multiyear ice instead it just seasonal ice as in Baltic or inland lakes. The same is true with permafrost thou much slower process. So when there will be no multiyear ice and no permafrost there's no Arctic either as it's the very thing defining Arctic.

one more concerning old arctic sea ice .
End of 2018 melt season there was still 4.71 million km2 of sea ice . ( survived the melt season ) lets see where we are next September shall we .

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by newhaul

one more concerning old arctic sea ice .
End of 2018 melt season there was still 4.71 million km2 of sea ice . ( survived the melt season ) lets see where we are next September shall we .

Sounds like a lot of ice. However what is the Median? Oh, dear, it's 6.4 million km2.

Again we get back to Extent and Concentration and we find that the ice is getting thinner. Concentration of sea ice is getting less in each passing year and therefore is melting earlier than in previous years.

Regarding the extent of the ice, not one year since 2006 has the minimum extent been in the "Interdecile" range which brings us back to a question asked earlier but never answered. What is it about the trend line that you don't understand?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Sounds like a lot of ice. However what is the Median? Oh, dear, it's 6.4 million km2.

Again we get back to Extent and Concentration and we find that the ice is getting thinner. Concentration of sea ice is getting less in each passing year and therefore is melting earlier than in previous years.

Regarding the extent of the ice, not one year since 2006 has the minimum extent been in the "Interdecile" range which brings us back to a question asked earlier but never answered. What is it about the trend line that you don't understand?

you should really read what we have been saying and I mean exact words and definitions of said words .

I am not talking trends which btw is actually on the increase again . The conversation being discussed is an assertion by teddy that sea ice is "extinct" my assertion is that there are at a minimum now 4.71million km2 of multi year ice. So the statement that old ice is extinct is categorically incorrect.
Btw what was the summer sea ice extent in 1960 ? Answer is 5.2 million km2 ( according to the US department of energy) so not really that much different from this last minimum. ( well within the margins of error).

But I say again this thread is about the NWP which is still blocked completely by fast ice.

Btw how long was the NWP open to non ice rated or icebreaker escorted vessels in 2018?


Try to stay on point this time .

[DeepFrz]

Nice deflection. Trend is not on the increase. And I was addressing a specific point that you made.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/fi...07/Figure3.png

Ice extent in 1960? Who are you kidding?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Nice deflection. Trend is not on the increase. And I was addressing a specific point that you made.

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/fi...07/Figure3.png

Ice extent in 1960? Who are you kidding?

do your research if you doubt my statement I have posted the data many times
But as the title says NWP SO TRY TO STAY ON POINT AND ON SUBJECT.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by newhaul

do your research if you doubt my statement I have posted the data many times
But as the title says NWP SO TRY TO STAY ON POINT AND ON SUBJECT.

I'm expecting the northern NWP route to be open in few years.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Btw what was the summer sea ice extent in 1960 ? Answer is 5.2 million km2 ( according to the US department of energy) so not really that much different from this last minimum. ( well within the margins of error).

Let's a link to substantiate that claim. Saying it is DOE is not sufficient.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Let's a link to substantiate that claim. Saying it is DOE is not sufficient.

I posted the data already here as well as many other threads wrt arctic sea ice . Do your due diligence.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I posted the data already here as well as many other threads wrt arctic sea ice . Do your due diligence.

Your assertion requires your evidence - a middle school concept.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Your assertion requires your evidence - a middle school concept.

provided several times check your bookmarks for the 1995 ipcc report.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

provided several times check your bookmarks for the 1995 ipcc report.

Nope - no mention.

https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uplo...essment-en.pdf

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Nope - no mention.

https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uplo...essment-en.pdf

keep looking its not just the assessment for policymakers its in working groups
On the AMO .

Here is another reference for you to occupy your retirement with
https://judithcurry.com/2019/02/23/w...ce-edition-95/

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

keep looking its not just the assessment for policymakers its in working groups
On the AMO .

Here is another reference for you to occupy your retirement with
https://judithcurry.com/2019/02/23/w...ce-edition-95/

Nice try at a deflection. That is 95th week in review, nothing to do with your claim.

You claim it is there in the 1995 report, my search says it is not. Back to you. Just use ctrl-F and search for "Arctic".

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Nice try at a deflection. That is 95th week in review, nothing to do with your claim.

You claim it is there in the 1995 report, my search says it is not. Back to you. Just use ctrl-F and search for "Arctic".

perhaps you should actually look at what I sent you .
The fact that you say its not there just proves you don't do your due diligence
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/...I%3E2.0.CO%3B2
This link will download the study