1 mast or 2

[kevinnem]

Hey all, . looking for what would become a world cruiser/retirement vessel. One fundamental question we are trying to sort out is weather we go with more "traditional"/popular designs, that are single masted ( like sloops and variations), or the 2 masted designs like the ketches.

Any thoughts on this?

Wondering if the "complexity" of the second mast is seen as a negative.
Is the additional cost for rigging replacement something people consider/concern themselves with? Are these 2 masted designs seen as a premium or inferior product?

Kev.

[nwdiver]

Schooner all the way many small easy to handle sails, with two masts……..it depends on the size of said vessel…60 ft sloop without electric winches could be difficult to handle…

[dfelsent]

47 foot ketch here. Learned to sail on a schooner. Have had fun on cats and tris too.
No electric winches other than the windlass.
We have an awful lot of strings but the compromise fits me.

Really I think there are sooo many other considerations that should drive your decision.
All the usual. Comfort,speed, displacement, draft, beam, vessel age, complexity ( electric winches?) , number of hulls(1,2,3),length and more.
Every boat is a compromise in a multidimensional space.
You need to try a lot on for size, in your head at the least.

[Muaddib1116]

I'd say that they are currently out of fashion. Even Amel, which has stuck to some pretty strict design philosophies over the years, has started bowing to modern consumer demand, and they have abandoned their long standing adherence to ketch rigs.

I think there's certainly nothing wrong with them, there are many advantages. The main disadvantage is the cost of rigging and an extra sail. As long as you are looking at the used boat market, there are a lot of criteria that I would put above what type of rig the boat has (assuming it's a rig appropriate for the cruising I want to do). Age, condition, equipment, build quality, cabin layout, deck layout, storage etc.

I suppose if you found a few boats that were all pretty equal in everything else and one was a cutter and one a ketch, then I'd feel like I would need to choose based on that criteria, but otherwise, I think it would be a relatively minor factor for me.

[wingssail]

For me, two criteria stand out for a boat:

Sparkling sailing characteristics and simplicity.

Of course strength, seakeeping ability and safety for the crew are essential.

There are, of course, other criteria criteria as well.

But why buy a boat which cannot sail well, which does not excite you when you put up the sails, which does not give the the "Joy of Sailing" every time you go out.

All other things being equal look for a boat with good numbers (sail area to displacement of 18-21, displacement to length under 200) and fin keel. This gives you a chance of a good performing boat. One which comes alive in 10 knots or less of true wind.

Then simplicity. A lot of arguments are made about multiple masts and many smaller sails for ease of handling. You don't need it. A sloop is simpler. One headsail and one mainsail. Both easily reducible in size with modern reefing systems. And if you have a boat with good sail area you don't even need a big headsail for your boat.

Handling a modern performance sloop with proper gear is easy, and you spend so much less time dealing with extra sails that you actually get to enjoy the sail, or you get to take a nap. Either way in the end you'll sail more and motor less.

[ilenart]

I use to have a 45 ft ketch awhile ago, which was a traditional style almost full length keel. The next yacht I owned, a 34 ft cruiser / racer, sailed faster on all points of the wind. For any yacht under around 50-55 ft I would stick with a single mast.

I believe their are statistics out their that average how much poorer a ketch performs compared to a fractional rigged sloop, 80-85% from memory. A schooner is even worse.

[Benz]

Ketches have the advantage of staying balanced with jib and mizzen while you sort out a reef in the main, or bring it in entirely. They heave-to beautifully with just a mizzen, reefed for the conditions, and no danger of damage to the mainsail.
My preference for any boat over 34' would be a schooner rig (and unlike most of the schooner bashers here, I've sailed thousands of miles in schooners), but for a split rig, a ketch would be a decent second choice. A yawl-well, that's just getting silly.
For sailing around buoys on wednesday evening--fin keel, spade rudder, carbon laminate sail, sure. But for going offshore, I'd rather have the sail-handling options of more than two working sails, and a hull that matches the rig.

[boatman61]

Let's not forget.. a ketch beat every sloop in a Round the World race a few decades back.. only time a ketch has ever entered the race..

[MicHughV]

I'm a diehard ketch fan....my ketch was 38'......sailhandling could be done by a child...a round the world trip should have you sailing down wind most of the time...

When I originally opted for the ketch, my thoughts were that if I ever lost the main, I'd have a "spare" mast to get me home. Never had to test this theory though.

Many other advantages, don't let the naysayers get you down. They go to windward just fine.

And....they look cool !!!!

[Wckoek]

I would say it depends on the displacement that needed a larger sail area.
Say 12-15 tonnes or above.


A ketch or yawl make sense from 38-40 feet onward, schooner from 45-50 feet onward.


I think before the 70's, people thought that ketch were the way to go for offshore/ocean crossing until boats get lighter and such rig wasn't necessary.

[Wckoek]

Weight will be lower for the same sail area for 2 masts, and likely the boat will heel lesser and motion will be more comfortable.
On the other hand, you do sacrifice deck space, efficiency, and the rig is more expensive.

[Rowglide]

Rear cockpit ketch means squeezing past extra shrouds, less of a problem with center cockpits.

BUT, lets not forget Aesthetics...

[MicHughV]

38' of poetry in motion

[cr180]

When we were young, raced sloops and didn’t hold the ketch rig in high regard. But now in retirement years, sail a 47’ ketch. Most of our sailing these days is on a reach. Often sail with Genoa and Mizzen without the Main (jib and jigger). The boat performs well and the Mizzen is easy to handle. We also enjoy a shorter main mast which comes in handy on the ICW.

Oh and before retirement, we thought we would make a lot of open ocean passages. Turns out don’t do well standing watches and the ocean is always rougher than predicted. So our ocean passages are from Florida to the Bahamas and the ketch rig serves us well.

[BillKny]

OK, so now you have the normal internet discussion battle lines drawn out.

A ketch rig is:

• A silly anachronism that has no place on a modern cruising boat
• The most awsome rig for a cruising boat ever invented.

Pick one.

I have owned ketches and sailed them many thousands of miles for 30 years, and love them. BUT this discussion is like asking if I should buy a boat with a Yanmar or a Beta engine. It might be a consideration, but it SHOULD be pretty far down the list.

There are NO boats around where you have a choice between a sloop and a ketch and everything else is the same, so this is one choice among many.

So FIRST look at the boat, and pick a good design that was well designed and well built, has been well maintained, and (most important) meets the needs for the kind of sailing you plan to do. THEN if you have multiple boats that are similar, pick the sloop or ketch as you desire.

Certainly there are some boats that must be sloops. Buoy racers for example. If you really want a long distance cruising boat, not a coastal or bay sailor, picking one or the other UP FRONT is a bad idea. Both are great ways to drive a boat across an ocean.