1980 Hughes 31 - Integrated Fin or Bolt On

[MistaSee]

I am looking for a sailboat to learn water sailing">Blue Water Sailing on, and like the 1980 Hughes 31 seems to be the best value for the $.

I appreciate that full or partial keels are better at keeping their position in low wind, however open to a fin keel if it is integrated and not bolted on, and has a skeged rudder.

How does one confirm if the Keel of a 1980 Hughes 31 is fully integrated, and not a bolt on keel?

[nuku34]

Welcome to the forums. I'm not clear about what "keeping position in low wind" actually means. Could you be more specific?
Also you mention "learning blue water sailing". Do you already know how to sail? If so, what is you level of experience?
The term "blue water" sailing is a marketing term and pretty much meaningless unless you specify what sort of sailing you have in mind. Ocean as opposed to inland, coastal as opposed to open ocean, long distance as opposed to short trips between islands or ports. Give us some idea of your plans and we can maybe help you out.

Re keels: both integrated and bolt-on have their pros and cons. Same with long (full) keels and fin keels, and with skeg-hung and spade rudders. There is NO perfect design. I've owned, cruised, and raced all of these types; all have their uses.

Your best bet is to try and cage a ride on different types, volunteer to crew, charter, etc. If you do decide to buy a boat, have it surveyed and take it for a test sail under more than just drifting conditions.

[Don C L]

The Hughes 31 is based on the Northstar 1000 which had a bolted on keel. I could not find any description of the H31 to confirm it, but I'd bet that the H31 has its keel bolted on:

https://sailboat.guide/hughes/north-star-1000
https://www.canadianyachting.ca/boat...3523-hughes-31

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Mista'.

[GordMay]

Hughes 31, reviewed by Pat Sturgeon, in 1999:
➥ https://www.canadianyachting.ca/boat...3523-hughes-31

See also ➥ Hughes 31 - Used Sailboat Market in Canada

Hughes 31 ➥ https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/hughes-31
North Star 1000 ➥ https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/north-star-1000

[TrentePieds]

Mista:

It strikes me that you are at the beginning of a cruising career. That's wonderful, and you have come to the right place to find answers to the many questions that will present themselves - so: Welcome :-)!

Perhaps, since you've asked the question specifically in relation to a Sparkman and Stephens design, I think you can take it for granted that the DESIGN is sound. The question is, of course, is whether the execution of the BUILD is adequate, and you, perhaps with the help of a surveyor, are the only one who can determine that.

If the boat you are considering buying has a "bolt-on", and given that the boat will be about four decades old, you need to determine not WHETHER it has a bolt on keel, but, if it does, that the KEELBOLTS ARE SOUND. If they are, Bob's your uncle. If they are NOT, then exchange them and you will have a boat as good as new (ceteris paribus) with keel bolts that will last another 40 years! The cost of changing the bolts should of course be reflected in the price you pay for the boat.

To discover if a particular boat has keel bolts is simple. You just look in the bilge, so go aboard your candidate for purchase, lift the cabin sole, and you will see the keel bolts right under your nose if there are any.

But now let me ask YOU a question :-) Are you categorically opposed to keel bolts? If so - why? What, precisely, is it that prompts your opposition?

TrentePieds

[Don C L]

BTW I think the Yankee 30 was also the predecessor of the H31 and that had a bolt on keel. Those S&S Yankees were tough little boats too. As Trente says, if the bolts are good, Bob's your uncle.... and I'd really love to know where that expression comes from!
The only thing is it can be hard to confirm how sound they are by just looking at their heads.

[TrentePieds]

Don said: " I'd really love to know where that expression comes from!"

Best of my knowledge it was the title of an English "music hall" show way, way back, maybe just after the Kaiser's War. The plot, I gathered, tho I have never seen the show, concerned a young and useless man who was given a responsible position by his uncle. Nepotism in action. Because such a thing was common in England at the time, the title caught on with "the common man" as a means of suggesting someone got something without having to work for it.

The "accepted" (and expected) response is "..and Fanny's yer aunt!"

But you need to know that "fanny", in English English means quite specifically "vagina", so the exchange in its totality might be rendered in American English as: "You're in luck" - "FO"!

TP

[Jim Cate]

I've heard the expression as " Bob's your uncle and Penny's your aunt", and always thought it had fiscal meaning (a "Bob" was slang for a shilling IIRC, and a Penny is a penny coin).

Why this makes any sense is beyond my ken, but it is still a commonly used expression here in Oz.

Jim

PS My Yankee 30 (1974 build) did indeed have a bolt on keel... and even when we were halfway to Hawaii in her I never worried about it falling off... and it didn't.

[Tayana42]

"Bob's your uncle" is a way of saying "you're all set" or "you've got it made." It's a catch phrase dating back to 1887, when British Prime Minister Robert Cecil (a.k.a. Lord Salisbury) decided to appoint a certain Arthur Balfour to the prestigious and sensitive post of Chief Secretary for Ireland. Not lost on the British public was the fact that Lord Salisbury just happened to be better known to Arthur Balfour as "Uncle Bob." In the resulting furor over what was seen as an act of blatant nepotism, "Bob's your uncle" became a popular sarcastic comment applied to any situation where the outcome was preordained by favoritism. As the scandal faded in public memory, the phrase lost its edge and became just a synonym for "no problem."

[TrentePieds]

Yes, so sez the all-knowing Ms. Google, but she also sez that there is some disagreement with that explanation.

Be that as it may, I am quite prepared to believe that the expression antedates WWI. English English vernacular is full of peculiarities, and I sense, but again I have no proof, that this one is rooted in the vernacular of southern England. I don't recall that I have ever heard it said with a Geordie or even a Brummie accent, let alone an Irish accent which one might have expected if the Salisbury/Balfour story were true.

It does, however, fit with the manner in which the "lower orders" in London express themselves, or at least with the way they did before the homogenization of language that has resulted from the pervasiveness of modern "media".

Remember that "music hall" was London-centric and relied very much for comic effect on use of the Cockney accent and on working class turns of phrase.

That the expression is reasonably common in Australia makes sense because so many of mid-19th C. settlers in Australia came from economically and educationally benighted parts of England, particularly London, and they would, of course, have brought their vernacular with them. Even today there are Australians who might be suspected, to hear them, of being not far removed from Hackney and Poplar :-)!

We, in this 'ere colony, on the other hand, carry the legacy of the "remittance men" - prospect-less sons of upper-class parents, or well to do parents of the middle classes (i.e. professional men). These young men were despatched "to the colonies" and lived on an allowance from home - a remittance - and they, also, brought their accents and vernacular with them "from home". Their vernacular was what today, in England, is called "received pronunciation, or simply "RP", and that is why Canadian English today is so very different from both American and Australian English.

I will occasionally use the "Bob's yer uncle" expression, but that is simply a hang over from my youth in England. It is not an expression heard very often around here.

TP




TP

[Tayana42]

Well in any event, give my best wishes for a joyous holiday season to your uncle Bob.

[MistaSee]

A beginner for sure, looking to get and go with one boat to learn and use.

The research I have been doing, has led me to believe that the number one failing point is losing
the keel, followed by rudder, followed by mast.

By going with a full or modified keel, in my mind, eliminates the two biggest challenges. That said, would be open to a skeg rudder with integrated fin, but do not believe there are many built this way.

Been reading up on Pacific Sea-crafts, looks like a gem of a yacht!

[MistaSee]

[QUOTE=MistaSee;3540285]A beginner for sure, looking to get and go with one boat to learn and use.

The research I have been doing, has led me to believe that the number one failing point is losing
the keel, followed by rudder, followed by mast.

By going with a full or modified keel, in my mind, eliminates the two biggest challenges. That said, would be open to a skeg rudder with integrated fin, but do not believe there are many built this way.

Been reading up on Pacific Sea-crafts, looks like a gem of a yacht!

I found this interview to be very educational, and while I appreciate he is “Selling” his vision on the Zero Keel, he seems very knowledgeable & credible:


https://youtu.be/YNHCHp8yjcE


Let me know what you think.

[MistaSee]

I found this to be very educational:

https://youtu.be/YNHCHp8yjcE