1990 Catalina 36, 1982 Niagara 35?

[robfuse]

Tank you AiniA. So I understand that to pass all Champlain Lake I have to switch to" motor boat". Unfortunately I don't have experienced crew, just me and my wife.This stress it me even more. What is the price (about) to lowering and raising mast-up ?:
Maybe I should go with C&C 35 Mark-3. Boat is in Maine, no lowering,rising.
I just want to sail, and cruise in peace for the next 10, 15 years(if good will still hold me in good shape) to celebrate life of my daughter( She always dreamed to go a little further). Now I'm confused if C&C 35 is more attention require in terms of sailing characteristics - performance oriented cruiser . If this is ok boat for almost Newbies?
You mentioned Passivator. What it is exactly , spray, paint.
Thank you .
All the best

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by robfuse

Tank you AiniA. So I understand that to pass all Champlain Lake I have to switch to" motor boat". Unfortunately I don't have experienced crew, just me and my wife.This stress it me even more. What is the price (about) to lowering and raising mast-up ?:
Maybe I should go with C&C 35 Mark-3. Boat is in Maine, no lowering,rising.
I just want to sail, and cruise in peace for the next 10, 15 years(if good will still hold me in good shape) to celebrate life of my daughter( She always dreamed to go a little further). Now I'm confused if C&C 35 is more attention require in terms of sailing characteristics - performance oriented cruiser . If this is ok boat for almost Newbies?
You mentioned Passivator. What it is exactly , spray, paint.
Thank you .
All the best

On a boat this big you need to have an operator at a boat yard raise & lower your mast. It shouldn't cost more than $200-$300 each way & I would not let that decide which boat to buy. If you need help with crew this forum can be a good way to find them, either paid or unpaid.


If you have very little experience you might consider a smaller boat that is easier to handle & maintain.

[T-Birder]

From what you say about how you will use the boat neither C36 nor N35 suits. You should seriously look at the C34 MKII if you want a catalena ... this is the best catalena between 30 and 40 feet it actual sails and does everything the 36 does in terms of cruising comfort and is easier to handle by one person and easier to find moorage ...etc.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/cat...talina/34+MkII
Way better than a C36 ... hands down catalena's best "sailing boat" ever.


But if you're looking at a Niagra, well for your use the N31 is the boat. Designed by Germain Frers, this is a sweet boat that sails like a dream. The hull shape's low wetted surface is so pretty I can't help myself and these numbers shout great performance. You will love sailing this vessel.
There is one near you in Wilson, NY, wants 27 900 and it is not a sail drive motor ...bonus



Both boats are deck step mast so easy to trailor

Sail Area/Disp.1: 19.74 Bal./Disp.: 44.36% Disp./Len.: 250.44

[robfuse]

Tank you guys All for help and comments.One more question.
What do you think about 1986 C&C 35 Mk-3?
I know about "c&c smile ", but this one " not smiling" according to the long term owner. Do you think is Ok boat for almost Newbies. Expiernce from West Wight Potter 19.
Fair winds.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by robfuse

Tank you AiniA. So I understand that to pass all Champlain Lake I have to switch to" motor boat". Unfortunately I don't have experienced crew, just me and my wife.This stress it me even more. What is the price (about) to lowering and raising mast-up ?:
Maybe I should go with C&C 35 Mark-3. Boat is in Maine, no lowering,rising.
I just want to sail, and cruise in peace for the next 10, 15 years(if good will still hold me in good shape) to celebrate life of my daughter( She always dreamed to go a little further). Now I'm confused if C&C 35 is more attention require in terms of sailing characteristics - performance oriented cruiser . If this is ok boat for almost Newbies?
You mentioned Passivator. What it is exactly , spray, paint.
Thank you .
All the best

A passivator is a chemical that converts any free iron atoms in the stainless into a passive form. One is called Wichinox and it is quite good. It is a thin cream that you put on, leave for 30 minutes and then wash or wipe off.

As someone said you can probably find crew here who have experience with mast lowering and raising.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

On a boat this big you need to have an operator at a boat yard raise & lower your mast. It shouldn't cost more than $200-$300 each way & I would not let that decide which boat to buy. If you need help with crew this forum can be a good way to find them, either paid or unpaid.


If you have very little experience you might consider a smaller boat that is easier to handle & maintain.

Doing a mast on a Niagara 35 or similar is not a big deal. People on the Great Lakes often take their masts down every fall for storage. At our yacht club it is a do-it-yourself process with lots of help from others waiting to do their stick. The facilities at Sorel and Castleton are very good. I seem to remember that cost at Castleton was $1 per foot or mast length but they sometimes charge you $1 per foot of boat length. We just had our mast put up at Catskill and it was $450 for a 45 footer. This mast is too big for DIY since it weighs around 1100 pounds with a furled genoa.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by T-Birder

From what you say about how you will use the boat neither C36 nor N35 suits. You should seriously look at the C34 MKII if you want a catalena ... this is the best catalena between 30 and 40 feet it actual sails and does everything the 36 does in terms of cruising comfort and is easier to handle by one person and easier to find moorage ...etc.
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/cat...talina/34+MkII
Way better than a C36 ... hands down catalena's best "sailing boat" ever.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

While the applause for the C34 is well deserved and appreciated, it may be a tad over the top. I've had my C34 for 20 years now, and have and cruise with friends who own C36s. They are demonstrably almost identical boats, C36 a tad wider and was designed years earlier. We bought our C34 because of the aft head and layout - no one is ever pee-ing next to someone's head when they are sleeping!


She does sail very well in light air and heavy air.


Both boats are easy to singlehand.



Like the C36, we have a very robust website & forum.


For the OP, here is a story about doing the Erie Canal:


Cruising 101 - Dan Harrington's weal sea does the Erie C anal and the Bahamas

Index of /~hardan


Happy hunting. When we looked for our boat we spent a year looking ONLY at C34s. We, first, figured out what boat we wanted, and then went hunting. I know this isn't for everyone. You are in a case of what mid-30 foot boat should I buy? I contend that this is bassackwards, but if the boat you really want is not available, or if you don't know what you want, then it seems to be the only remaining choice.


You should (must???) also consider gear. I moved a Northern California boat to BC. No windlass, no heat. I can live without a full cockpit enclosure, but a bimini would be nice, too, although when it's cool out a bit of sun always helps. It's not only the boat. A sweet sailing C&C without a windlass or heat is gonna be a PITA compared to a C34 or C36 with a windlass and heat. I anchored out regularly in 10-12 to 20 feet of water without a windlass. Hardere, much harder, to do in the deeper waters here.



Here are some C34s for sale as of early March 2018. More important is the link to the advertiser, one most haven't heard about:


$29,995 USD, NY Boats for sale ABLBoats www.ablboats.com
$26,000 USD, Milwaukee Boats for sale ABLBoats www.ablboats.com
$32,000 USD 1987 boat Rhode Island Boats for sale ABLBoats www.ablboats.com

[T-Birder]

Re: Catalina 34's I was speaking about are the MKII's nothing before /98 the earlier Catalinas do not sail/respond well ... I know I've sailed them all ... the best way to learn about sailing and all the different boats out there is to be race crew. And after years and years of studying and practicing from PHRF to one design you begin to learn a thing or two





C&C 35 is an ok boat but much closer to the IOR ruling hence head sail driven performance ... they don't sail well under main alone, they will stall in a head wind with main alone. And when the wind gets up and you have to point, reefing the headsail, furling if you have it (which is the first approach to reducing sail on such a boat), you won't be pointing worth a damn ... and when you're sailing on a river every which way is a lee shore. IOR designed boats are also tricky on a dead down wind point of sail and they are not forgiving ... between a following sea and big puffs and if you take your eye off the ball (read helming and responding quickly) you will find yourself in an accidental gibe if not broached. Mind you C&C's of that era are better than some other IOR type boats namely the San Juan fleet and 1 Tons. In addition for cruising purposes, the primary driving sail is best to be stayed with spars for reasons of control: your driving sail should be you mainsail. Actually for many years now, all well designed sail plans have the mainsail as the primary drive whether racing or cruising: ie J boats, Beneteau's ... even Hunters.


As for the Catalina 34MII... while the headsail is still the primary drive, at least the beam is carried well aft to offset the hole in the water created by a tight narrow stern which is the fore runner to the rolly pollies then a broach.


For someone who is coming from a potter wight 19 (and from the boats mfg's you have mentioned: Catalina, Niagara and C&C ) the best boat is the N31: it is the lighter of the three, 8000lbs, which means sailing when the heavy boats are motoring; its ballast/displacement is near 45% which means reefing later not sooner and makes for a stiff boat (this is a good thing); it only draws 5'; sail/displ. factor is near 20 (that's the beginning of the "fast sail" numbers ); Displ,/Length is 250 which means she has a moderate motion/response to the sea state not a speedster but not a dog either, she will go; it is a very well built boat compared to catalinas and others of that era in this class of boat and it is more affordable to maintain because of the quality of build and more importantly its design.
Sail plan configuration should be full batten main with 1st reef shallow then 2nd and 3rd reefs standard ... you don't need deep reefs.
Head sail on twin luff groove furler 130/5% genoa max. ,anything more is a waist.
2nd Head sail rolled in sock 100% jib with dedicated lead blocks on track.
Light air sails: Code 0 fixed to pulpit or sprit. soft blocks to toe rail
Spinnaker "sysmetrical" with pole (end for end handling with no lazy guys.
PS the N31 will head to wind ward with main alone.

[Gary Mc]

The C&C 35 mentioned above is the MK III. It was designed by Rob Ball of the C&C Design group and first built in 1982. The MK III had little to no influence from the IOR rule. They are an excellent sailing boat that cruises very comfortably.

I believe that they had two different keels and the deeper one had quite a bit of draft. Depending on where you sail this might be a factor.

Of the three boat in this discussion, and having sailed on all of them, (well OK the Cat 320 and 340) the MK III would be my preference.


Good luck

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by T-Birder

Re: Catalina 34's I was speaking about are the MKII's nothing before /98 the earlier Catalinas do not sail/respond well ... I know I've sailed them all ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As for the Catalina 34MII... while the headsail is still the primary drive, at least the beam is carried well aft to offset the hole in the water created by a tight narrow stern which is the fore runner to the rolly pollies then a broach.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have to disagree with this completely. The Mark IIs were specifically designed by Catalina to be able to race with the older boats. The ONLY beam carried aft is well above the waterline for a larger cockpit.



1. I'm the secretary of the C34 International Association, have been since 1999. I know the boats.


2. The main venue for racing C34s is on SF Bay, although we used to hold national regattas in other parts of the country years ago. The Mark I & II boats race successfully against each other, and in SF they've worked out a very fair handicapping system that has nothing to do with whether the boats are Is or IIs, but only on rigging, sails, props, etc. The boats are equal. There are usually 10 boats racing in events held monthly all year round on The Bay, a mix of Is & IIs. They know this. And have for the past 30 years and since 1994 when the IIs came out. I raced one design with ONLY C34s, both versions, from 1999 to 2006.


3. "...the earlier Catalinas do not sail/respond well..." WADR, that is utter rubbish.

[robert sailor]

Catalina for coastal bruising and Niagara for offshore work. Both good boats for intended use.

[T-Birder]

To be fair I've never raced Catalenas in a one design capacity ... might be fun.
But the issue was between an older 36 vs 34 MII, Building started /96. And there is no question for the OP's use the 34 MII is better on all tacks, pun intended.
I have sailed the 22, 27, 320, 34, 36 , 47 (but I guess the 47 doesn't count) ... the 34MII hands down sails the best mind it was brand new and true one owner's 34 vs another can be like comparing cats and dogs. So not to disparage the elders in the fleet of 34's in the Bay area , lets say just say that catalina's best design was and still is the 34 ... it hit the sweet spot.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by T-Birder

To be fair I've never raced Catalenas in a one design capacity ... might be fun.
But the issue was between an older 36 vs 34 MII, Building started /96. And there is no question for the OP's use the 34 MII is better on all tacks, pun intended.
I have sailed the 22, 27, 320, 34, 36 , 47 (but I guess the 47 doesn't count) ... the 34MII hands down sails the best mind it was brand new and true one owner's 34 vs another can be like comparing cats and dogs. So not to disparage the elders in the fleet of 34's in the Bay area , lets say just say that catalina's best design was and still is the 34 ... it hit the sweet spot.

I went back and reread both your posts and mine and it took me a while to figure you were comparing the 36 and 34. I refer you to my first post where I explained that for the OPs purposes there isn't too much difference between them. Thanks for the clarification.

[Restlessone]

I have a Niagara 31 and it is a beautiful boat but the design is old. It sail very well. That said I really like the Catalina series. They sail well and for those time you aren’t on deck the interior is well laid out.
To move fro Montreal to the New York area is very easy from Oswego. Drop the mast and motor down the cannel. Ideally with three but doable for two. Also great scenery and lots of fun.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Restlessone

I have a Niagara 31 and it is a beautiful boat but the design is old. It sail very well. That said I really like the Catalina series. They sail well and for those time you aren’t on deck the interior is well laid out.
To move fro Montreal to the New York area is very easy from Oswego. Drop the mast and motor down the cannel. Ideally with three but doable for two. Also great scenery and lots of fun.

If you are in Montreal and want to go to the Hudson it is much easier and cheaper to go through Lake Champlain than through Oswego on Lake Ontario. For one thing you avoid the eight Seaway locks which charge $40 each last time I checked. Also the Lake Champlain route has about eight locks while the Oswego Canal/Erie Canal has something like 29. Champlain is also very scenic.