3Di by North.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by GRIT

…

FxyKty. Thanks for your report as well. It sounds like your old sails were in the same condition as my 2 year old Dacron sails. Would you mind telling me which brand you've chosen, and perhaps a guestimate on how much more expensive than Dacron you found them to be? The 3DI sails I priced a few years ago were about 3.5 times more expensive than the Dacron I purchased: $9000 for the Main in Dacron, and $33000 for the 3DI. The Hydranet pricing was about $17000, or double the price of our Dacron sails. The jib ran about half the price of the main for all three materials, and is almost exactly half the size of the mainsail.

Thanks to all.

Cheers.
Paul.

We were in New Zealand at the time (March 2020) and I got quotes for 80m2 mainsail and 35m2 jib from two local and several offshore sailmakers (except for Zoom the offshore guys did not quote for membrane sails). I didn’t bother with quotes for Dacron sails but from memory the ballpark was double the cost for laminates vs Dacron. Remember that my quotes were from New Zealand and the labour costs generally overwhelm the material costs.

The jib was generally 1/3 the cost of the main despite being almost half the size as it doesn’t have battens nor reef points. Those add a significant cost to the mainsail.

- North Sails NZ: 3Di Ocean 700 22,400 Dpi, UltraPE and Aramid NZD 50K / USD 34K

- Doyle Sails NZ: Stratis Membrane Offshore 32,000 Dpi mainsail, 23,597 Dpi jib, Technora Black NZD 48K USD 33K

- Doyle Sails NZ: HydraNet 483 mainsail and HydraNet 433 jib NZD 40K / USD 29K

- Zoom Sails (Malaysia, factory in Sri Lanka): Membrane Aramid/Dyneema (the membrane is made in Italy but I don’t have the technical specifications anymore) mainsail and jib including new Rutgerson battens and hardware USD 17K / NZD 25K

- Rolly Tasker Sails: Contender Fibercon (basically same as HydraNet) mainsail and jib: USD 14K / NZD 19K

[GRIT]

Thanks for those numbers. That's helpful for anyone looking for membrane, or 3di sails. Our 3di price quotes are very close, I guess because they only make 3di in one place, and ship everywhere from there. Amazing technology.

I don't think we'll get much more than another year out of our main, so I'll have some fresh numbers to add to this thread next year.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Loredo]

The numbers I got do reflect fxykty's.
Hydranet sails (From Incedences) were less than 10% cheaper than the 3Di's. The (back then) new to me boat had exactly those sails when I got it and were totally shot after only 5 years. Hello....



Another bit to think about is what you get besides the sails when you spend your money with North sails.

CUSTOMER SERVICE! Second to none. Worldwide!!!
That alone is worth to me way more than saving some boat bucks with any
other "local" sail loft.
Food for thought?!?


Loredo

[slap]

I have a Nordac 3di mainsail that has three sailing seasons of use. I am unimpressed by both the sail and by North's customer service. The sail looks to be discolored by what I think is mildew - something that the 17 year old cross cut dacron main never had. I had the sail washed by North and it didn't come out. The sail is only on the boat during the sailing season and lives in an unused bedroom in the wintertime.

When I ordered the sail I asked for the dutchman system to be installed in the same place as on the old mainsail so the sailcover would not need to be modified. Even though North had my old mainsail as a reference they still put the dutchman in a significantly different spot so the cover had to be modified. When I tried to put the sail on the first time I found out that they hadn't cut slits in the foot of the main for the reefing lines to go around the boom and they had left off the sail insignia.

When I would call North to find out when I could pick up the sail they would promise me a date. I would wait a day or two after that date and call to see if I could pick it up. Of course it wasn't ready and was promised a new date. Repeat multiple times. I was never called and told that they couldn't make a deadline - I always had to call to find out the status. Between their delays and mistakes I lost about a month's worth of sailing. North never offered to come out and look at the sail on the boat or offered to show me how to best trim the sail, etc. You know - the added customer service that is supposed to come from a local loft and is one of the reasons for paying a premium price.

I've ordered a new jib for the boat - a triradial dacron sail - it isn't North.

[GRIT]

Thanks for that report SLAP.

Stories like that are so common in the marine industry, it's a wonder there's an industry at all! How hard is it to keep a client informed as to your progress, or pay attention to what is asked of them?

North has a a reputation for excellence, but their lofts are individually owned and take on the character of the owner. I can only think it's like the snobby super yacht crew, who's job it is to clean the toilets. Sometimes, this person raises their nose in the air to us mere "cruisers". They don't seem to realize that cleaning the toilet, is not the same as owning the toilet. (No disrespect intended to those who clean toilets for a living, I've worked such jobs (and worse) myself).

The discolouration is odd though. I hope it's not UV damage to the adhesive!

Please keep us up to date as to the condition of the sail.

Good luck.
Paul.

[lelievre12]

I got new North Sails 3Di Genoa 75m2 and Staysail 21m2 (Nordac 22400) in 2022. 27 tonne Nauticat 51 foot cruising boat.

The sails have been quick to show dirt but have been excellent in terms of shape and power to the boat. Unfortunately in 2024 only 2 years on, I have split the genoa during a tack (in 18 knots TWS) where the sail contacted either the spreader or the radome. In 50 years of sailing/racing I have never split a sail so this came as a shock.

I am in Greece and the local North Sail yard (Athens) is closed for the season and only opens over winter. As the sail is so unique I guess I am stuck as a one piece sail with no stitching looks hard to repair. The last thing I want is a Dacron patch stitched on!

Had I known how easy they are to damage and how difficult to repair, not sure I would go this way again. North Sails itself have provided ZERO reply or feedback on what to do and North Sails Greece sent a very short reply to contact them again in 3 months. Wow.

[GordMay]

The North Sails 3Di repair Kit contains 3 sheets of black material for repairing North 3Di [Windsurfing] sails, and instruction sheet.
➥ https://northactionsports.com/produc...YA-PfiOIykFbwg

3 Di Repair Video ➥ https://youtu.be/JsPnnXk1R_c

I’ve read blogs, about a Volvo 70 crew fixing North 3Di sails, in a couple of hours, with 3M 5200 [polyurethane].
And, evidently, a boat on the ARC did a repair with Sikaflex 291 [silicone], and sail ties.
I believe that, both used dacron patches; BUT, they may have used North ‘WS 3Di’ repair patches.

[fxykty]

Update after nearly 4 years and 20,000 miles of full time cruising with our Zoom sails - film-less carbon membrane with polyester taffetas both sides. Jib is pretty much the same as when new, will need new Sunbrella UV strips in another year or so (sub-tropical and equatorial sun is hard on materials). The main will need reinforcing at the first and second reef clews and some taffeta replacement and/or patching along the reef foots and the leech. Because of the unyielding nature of the material it looks like there are higher loads at the reef clews than with woven materials and those weren’t taken account of when designing the sail. The taffetas are sacrificial so don’t affect the shape or performance of the sail. Still perfect. We’re also going to carbon sleeve the fibreglass battens to make them stiffer. Once we get to Malaysia in 6 months time we’re going to send the sails back to the Sri Lanka factory for refreshing. We expect to get at least another 5-6 years from them.

Grit, what have you decided on?

For other posters, note that Grit has a moderately large and powerful performance cat. The loads are similar to those of a monohull super yacht or maxi racer. Dacron and exotic woven materials (such as HydraNet or Fibrecon) are not appropriate as the stretch inherent in woven materials will destroy the designed shape of the sail in short order. Exotic laminates can work, but the panel connections introduce hard points and stretch centres. Membrane sails are the best (performance-oriented) solution, but can be expensive.

And for both laminate and membrane sails, if they are made with heat set glues they will fail in equatorial use. That is something to check and confirm with whatever sailmaker you’re dealing with. Take with a grain of salt when they tell you how Volvo Ocean Race teams use a single set of their sails for the entire race - that’s 30,000 miles of hard use but only 9 months of time. And it’s time and repeated dropping and raising and storing in a stack pack that will destroy sails, not generally the sailing (other than if you routinely flog your jib when furling it or allow your main to slap in light air and big swells and to flog when reefing or lowering).