40' Miller & Whitworth

[dennisail]

Hmmm what do you guys think of this? My girlfriend wants us to go look at this so we can take a year of work to do some live aboard cruising. Her 31 footer might be a bit cramped for such a long time. "Built to the same 1 ton design as the Hobart-winning Rampage."



40' Miller & Whitworth sloop for sale - $67,000 Australia

[boatman61]

Very nice....
But am puzzled why her 31ftr would be to cramped... cruised the Med for 3 1/2 yrs on a 31ftr with my then partner... had a ball... just need to be organised and only take whats needed...

[dennisail]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Very nice....
But am puzzled why her 31ftr would be to cramped... cruised the Med for 3 1/2 yrs on a 31ftr with my then partner... had a ball... just need to be organised and only take whats needed...

I see where you are coming from regarding organisation. However the only real habitable bed is the V birth, and I don't really even fit in that. Also we plan on ocean passages.

[boatman61]

Ahh.... a fellow over 6ftr I'm guessing.... our Westerly had a great 7ft double in the saloon.... which put the kettle/stove in easy reach for breakfast

[dennisail]

hehe, well maybe just above 6. So many boat designs go with "more is better". More as in "the more births the better". So they end up with heaps of tiny births which might be great for 6 midgets but useless for 2 tall people. My mates spray was like this with 6 useless births and one good double. But his Duncanson 35 had great births.

The thing with Nikki's 31 footer is the saloon seats are just about impossible to use as a bed anyway but if they were made a few inches shorter the V birth would be so much better. Its a great boat though. I do love it too.

[savoir]

Before you get too serious about this boat be sure to test sail it on a windy day. Miller's designs from that time were not his best and tended to be skittish downwind. Their keels and rudders were quite small and the underbody seriously fat leading aft to a hugely pinched in rudder area. If this boat has a balance issue it will become apparent above 15 knots.

Here is a Lexcen design from the same period.



There is another Lexcen boat of similar age in Brisbane called Dancing Mouse. It was a dreadful thing to sail in any breeze from 15 up. Maybe it would be worth comparison if you can find out where it is.

Here is another design from those days that might appeal. It would be much easier to steer.

Used Swanson 38 for Sale | Yachthub

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Dennis,

Having cruised for many years in a retired IOR one-tonner of the same era I won't say that you should avoid this boat... not at all. Don't know anything about the specific design as to sailing characteristics. But I do note that while it has had some new kit purchased, the house bank is really small for cruising, there are poor recharging facilities (ie solar or wind or big alternator), the fuel tank is tiny (water not so bad).

The pix posted are so distorted that it is hard to get a feel for the layout, but it doesn't look bad. Not so sure about stowage, tho'.

Certainly worth a good sticky-beak IMO.

Cheers,

Jim

[dennisail]

Thanks guys. Jim, I did notice the small fuel tanks and lack of charging facilities. Being an electrician I would fit wind gen and solar. Not sure what could be done for the fuel tanks short of adding tanks or jerry cans. But being an ex race boat I would hope to be sailing in more conditions than many other boats. Not sure if you have followed my thread about sailing a Duncanson 35 (IOR design) from Adelaide to Brisbane, but we done that with pretty much no motor at all since it broke down. I would like more around 300L of fuel though.

As for the IOR handling. I always hear it brought up that these boats can be terrible down wind. Then someone else says its not true unless you are trying to race it with too much sail up. I have a soft spot for the look of IOR boats for some reason. And I am no sure if I am correct in thinking they will sail a lot better than a cheap modern production boat specially upwind. Its sister ship Rampage won Sydney to Hobart (on handicap) in 1972 and 1995.

However as you point out Savoir, not all IORs are the same and one design could be terrible compared to another. I'm not sure how could say a boat with 6.4" draft has a small keel? That pic you linked does not look very good though. What model is that? I would like to know what this boats keel looks like.

http://www.centralyachts.com/listing...ango_specs.pdf

[dennisail]

Thanks guys. I can not find any photos or info on this type of boat anywhere. The only pics in the searches come up with this for sale pics of this exact boat. Some quick research showed an Olympic 40 is a Compass 38 hull with a Lexen 40 deck. A lexen 40 is a newer design than this M&W 40. So if the Olympic 40 I found for sale is anything to go by, they have nothing in common with this boat. Unless there is also an older version?

I looked at the M&W 40. Nikki likes it. The interior setup is OK. I fit in all the bunks Here is a pic of her out of the water I found on the actual boat. Also does this corrosion look like a worry?

[Lowcountry]

The lack of a single opening port would be a deal-killer for me on this boat.

[dennisail]

In terms of ventilation/light or both? There is plenty of light throughout the boat besides the V birth thanks to new windows that face almost straight up.. It has a very large deck hatch at the front and one in the middle. Not enough? Fitting a couple is a large task? We rarely open the ports on Nikki's 31 footer. What do others think?

[dennisail]

I would like to give a big thanks to Landlubber (shipwright on boatdesign.net) for coming down to look at the boat with me. I was prepared to buy, but after a chat regarding the pros cons of the boat and its condition I decided against it for the money they were asking.

I think I might wait until something more like this comes along. It was only a couple hours drive from here too.

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-...ucket-43/32202

[savoir]

I was just about to post saying that I couldn't tell anything from your pic. The flash reflection was in exactly the wrong place and no amount of photoshopping could cure it. Anyway, at least the big decision was made before you parted with the big buck$.

The boat in my pic was a production half tonner designed by Miller. The guy was an eccentric and erratic genius meaning that half his designs were terrible and the other half were brilliant. You just have to know which half your boat is in. Stay tuned and I'll post more info on the boat in the pic.

If you like the Nantucket 43 I can confirm from experience that they are extremely well mannered in all sea conditions. The boat offers similar performance to the old S & S designs. The trade off is that they are a little sluggish in light weather but then again most older boats are. That boat design had another life under the name "Cole 43" so use that name as well in your searches. There are plenty around and they are a boat that could take you anywhere.

Here is another boat in your area that might be of interest.
FARR 36 boat details - BoatPoint Australia

In the late 1970's Bruce Farr grew tired of the whole IOR thing and designed a boat that would be justplain good to sail. The result was the Farr 38. They did not take off because of the terrible rating under the IOR system. If you started a race in one of these you had to out perform the 45 footers - tough call. Later on Binks of Adelaide brought out a production version called the Farr 11.6 and this is one of them.

[savoir]

Well that didn't take long. Here it is.
Used Miller And Whitworth (ben Lexcen Design) for Sale | Yachthub

The design was from the mid 70's and wasn't very successful. On the other hand this similar boat was from the early 70's and raced successfully for years. The original owner only sold it last year.
Cruising Yacht Club of Australia ..Plum Crazy’s Comeback for Great Veterans Race

[dennisail]

Thanks Savoir. I found that 32 footer for sale, but we already have a 31 foot boat. Sounds like some of M&W designs were not all that great.