40 year old sailboat with good survey, vs 20 year old sailboat with good survey?

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Many if not most marinas in the USA require full coverage.

So far our marina only requires liability of $500,000.

If they change their rule, I'll move away from the city some.

I bought the boat at a marina / boatyard that didn't require any insurance.

[Cheechako]

Production boats probably haven't changed a ton.
I would say some have changed for the worse, but higher profit.

However, if you go too old, construction techniques were still in the learning curve. I would not normally buy an old boat older than the early 80's myself.

Most of the "systems" seem to be nearing replacement after 8 years on a boat.
Coring in deck or hull has issues often.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by Duxa

A quick google search yields that fiberglass is unaffected by most things.. and with gel coal on top even more so? so as far as structural integrity it seems like an older boat should be just as safe as a newer one.

Obviously this all assumes that these boats have been taken care of and werent just left sitting (hence survey is the same).

Please educate me. Thanks!

What little I do know is this. If you are new to boat maintenance and/or sailing, assuming all else is equal, get the newer boat. Even if the two boats are both in perfect condition, when it comes time to fix things, the older boat will be more difficult to find replacements for, and you will sometimes have to install modern parts where older parts used to be. Or modify older wiring systems to new standards. That can be done, make no mistake, but the older the boat is, it becomes progressively difficult and you will have to hire people to do the work instead of doing it yourself, which really drives up costs more than anything else.

As far as sailing comfort, speed, etc, everything is a trade off. Older boats were focused more on comfort in heavy seas, while newer boats generally are better designed for living space.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Allied39

And your point?



Poor bloody boat is in it's last stage, so sad to see that level of neglect.



But it what it is and everything dies sooner or later.

What neglect? He took care of the boat, he just didn’t care about the cosmetics.

Those photos are from near the end of a RTW cruise.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Rohan

What little I do know is this. If you are new to boat maintenance and/or sailing, assuming all else is equal, get the newer boat. Even if the two boats are both in perfect condition, when it comes time to fix things, the older boat will be more difficult to find replacements for, and you will sometimes have to install modern parts where older parts used to be. Or modify older wiring systems to new standards. That can be done, make no mistake, but the older the boat is, it becomes progressively difficult and you will have to hire people to do the work instead of doing it yourself, which really drives up costs more than anything else.

I think this depends on the boat.

Many times smaller boats with simple systems are pretty easy to maintain.

My boat is 47 year old and hasn't been that hard to maintain.

I got it for $2,000 and have put maybe another $9,000 - $10,000 into it over 10 years with most of those costs going to:

New Outboard (to replace the diesel) $1550 (I did the diesel +hardware removal)
New Mainsail $1600
Replacement Dodger/Mainsail Cover $1500
Replacement Autopliot $450
Solar Panels and controllers $400
Outboard Brackets $500
AC Inverters $200
Paint (Bottom and interior) $700
Replacement tiller $100
VHF/GPS/AIS $350
Handhelds (VHF radios/Compass $300
LED Interior Lamps/Shaded $350
Halyards $250

Still haven't replaced the rigging or seacocks and have been sailing it since 2011.

It came with two good main anchors, chain and rode for both. Depth, GPS, and VHF.

[CoryW]

All things being equal, the older vessel will be harder to insure.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Duxa

Quick disclaimer. I dont know the first thing about sailboats. We are just now starting our journey and are simply trying to learn 'the sheets'



We are seeing boats for sale from mid last century. Some of them are quite nice actually. So I am going to make an assumption (please correct me if its wildly wrong).



Production boats have not changed much in the last 50 years as far as getting you from point A to point B. Safety (structurally) is pretty much the same, speeds are the same? Things that changed are the layout, electronics etc... is this a correct assumption? I am not talking about $10 million state of the art Comanche (

), I am talking about run of the mill production boat, Catalina, Hunter, Benetau etc..



So. To someone like me... who doesnt know anything. It seems like a 20 year old boat would be old enough to need a major overhaul (electronics, wood etc..), and so then if for example a 1980 sailboat comes back with the same survey result as a 2005 sailboat. In other words, functionally it is in good shape, no issues with hull, no issues with all the important things (keel bolts etc), same number of engine hours... is there any reason to get the 2005 over 1980 ? Refit would probably cost the same? But a good chunk can be saved on initial purchase price?



This all of course assuming that you like the layout and look of the 1980 boat.



A quick google search yields that fiberglass is unaffected by most things.. and with gel coal on top even more so? so as far as structural integrity it seems like an older boat should be just as safe as a newer one.



Obviously this all assumes that these boats have been taken care of and werent just left sitting (hence survey is the same).



Please educate me. Thanks!

Apples to oranges comparison.
Yes the boats are still made with fiberglass. But a lot of specifics have changed, even the chemistry of the resin has changed some.

Look at cars. Still mostly made with steel powered by gasoline/petrol. Current cars will last 200k mi or more. Car from 1970 would be very lucky to reach 200k. Lots of little details changed. Flip side is that newer cars are a lot harder to work on.

[SV__Grace]

This is not a simple either/or question as it depends upon the boat, the owner, and insurability.


Before buying an older boat, if you will need insurance, check that you will be able to insure it. This is getting harder nowadays for some reason.


I've always preferred the overbuilt quality of older fiberglass boats (70's and 80's) as I value having good bones over the stuff that wears out and needs replacing.


All boats require time, money and effort to keep in shape and it helps to be handy and be able to do much of that yourself. Even if money isn't an issue, getting, scheduling, supervising, and dealing with all the boat tradespeople can be a full time job on any boat if you outsource everything.


Then there are your requirements for a boat, which depends upon how you intend to use it- racers, liveaboards, coastal cruisers, offshore cruisers, yacht club dock queens, etc. all have different needs that influence their choices no matter what year the boat is built.

[Adelie]

Another consideration is layout. Order boats interior layouts were more geared towards racing and voyaging. Newer boats more towards living aboard.

If the intent is to do long passages I would rather have the older layouts. Yes passage-making will be 10-20% of your time on the boat but that’s also when you need the layout that is safer and more conducive to getting good sleep while underway. It’s just less convenient when at anchor.

[Clivevon]

To the OP Duxa - full marks for knowing enough to ask the questions:
Where to start with the answers?
Production boats have changed fundamentally over the past 50 years. My boat was designed in 1973 & built in 1981. Her shape & structure is totally different from later boats. She is designed for seaworthiness, not to squeeze in the most accommodation below. Designed for strength, not to minimise build costs. Built up to a standard, not down to a price, with floors incorporated into her construction, not a stuck on later keel matrix. I could go on...

Also. a boat is a whole interconnecting system. Rigging, sails, electronics, upholstery, engines are ultimately all renewed eventually, by someone, if the boat lasts that long before being scrapped. Its a bit like the 25 year old broom (Trigger's broom, in UK) which has had 4 new heads & 5 new handles...

But the hull & deck are not renewable. Repairable, but not replaceable. So the fundamental construction is important. My boat has had 2 major refits & will outlast me, most likely, as long as there is someone who wants a capable seaboat not a floating caravan. Not that there is anything wrong with a floating caravan if that is what you want.

A 2005 boat will not be the same as a 1980 boat. Not at all. Not in any way, except they both float & both sail.

Have fun searching - get out & visit & sail a few boats to find the one that suits you - for now.

[Hermia II]

Mine was launched -81 and looks like new (deck, engine and outside paint 7yrs old). If a 40 yr old boat has the same qualities as a 20 yr boat, you know the first one has kept up better. You can always work on deck layout and interior, but boats built in the 80's are good boats. As far as structure is concerned the older boats were generally more often played up by hand (better laminate), later they were sprayed, especially the likes of Bavaria etc. A 40 yr sailboat is very often good value for money.

[Allied39]

Originally Posted by Adelie

What neglect? He took care of the boat, he just didn’t care about the cosmetics.

Those photos are from near the end of a RTW cruise.

LOL, of course, I stand corrected. Obviously an impeccably maintained vessel, I bet the interior is simply bristol.

[Cajunexpat]

I was in your shoes a few months ago. In June I bought that 20 year old boat, (catamaran)... beautiful boat, well maintained, but then......on the trip home, burned up an engine, (2 months ago), still waiting to get it back from the machine shop! Ac gone out twice, plumbing lines are old and dry rotted, nav equipment might get donated to a museum..... in other words, every thing that can go wrong, will go wrong. Plan on refitting everything. The most important factor is the boat itself. Boats in the 80’s were built heavier, the newest materials were not available, but they weren’t in 2000 either. The lay out, the comfort of the boat, that is more important. I bought my boat in Stuart Fl. and was headed home to Louisiana. Been stuck in Marathon for over two months. Have spent an extra $70,000 so far on this boat, but it’s closer to being finished my way than it was. Don’t put too much stock in a surveyor. I could become a marine surveyor with a correspondence course and a test. They will find the obvious things that you could find yourself. It’s like a home inspection, if I do a nice enough job covering the total destruction of a wall by termites, you won’t find it until it’s too late. Enough ranting.... hope it helps a little

[Cajunexpat]

Also stay away from any boat with wood in it’s core, stringers, transom, etc.

[flightlead404]

All else being equal (condition, features, size etc) buy the newest one you can afford.