40 year old sailboat with good survey, vs 20 year old sailboat with good survey?

[Duxa]

Quick disclaimer. I dont know the first thing about sailboats. We are just now starting our journey and are simply trying to learn 'the sheets'

We are seeing boats for sale from mid last century. Some of them are quite nice actually. So I am going to make an assumption (please correct me if its wildly wrong).

Production boats have not changed much in the last 50 years as far as getting you from point A to point B. Safety (structurally) is pretty much the same, speeds are the same? Things that changed are the layout, electronics etc... is this a correct assumption? I am not talking about $10 million state of the art Comanche (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDmz9iqyeSU

), I am talking about run of the mill production boat, Catalina, Hunter, Benetau etc..

So. To someone like me... who doesnt know anything. It seems like a 20 year old boat would be old enough to need a major overhaul (electronics, wood etc..), and so then if for example a 1980 sailboat comes back with the same survey result as a 2005 sailboat. In other words, functionally it is in good shape, no issues with hull, no issues with all the important things (keel bolts etc), same number of engine hours... is there any reason to get the 2005 over 1980 ? Refit would probably cost the same? But a good chunk can be saved on initial purchase price?

This all of course assuming that you like the layout and look of the 1980 boat.

A quick google search yields that fiberglass is unaffected by most things.. and with gel coal on top even more so? so as far as structural integrity it seems like an older boat should be just as safe as a newer one.

Obviously this all assumes that these boats have been taken care of and werent just left sitting (hence survey is the same).

Please educate me. Thanks!

[Swift Drift]

Short answers:
-stop over analyzing. Get off the internet and go sailing.
-Buy the 20 year old one all else held constant.

[Tetepare]

At 20 years the boat should have been refit at least once, and the 40 YO twice. But in 99% of the cases neither has been, so one is just more worn out.

The big difference will be in ergonomics, and that’s a big factor in Liveability.

[Snore]

When you buy a used sailboat you buy the original build quality and the maintenance and improvements done by the previous owners.

I own a 40 year old Tartan. She has aged better than some newer Hunters and Benes I have delivered.

[thomm225]

This Bristol 27 crossed three oceans. The boat is a 1973 and was purchased for $1,000.

It's a Bristol so it was well built.

It was loaded with electronics to include a homemade autopilot built by the owner now called a Pypilot. The motor was a windshield wiper motor from a car.

https://pypilot.org/

It also had 600 watts of solar for power and a SSB receiver which was for weather reports I believe.

[Greatest Lakes]

That Bristol makes me feel a lot better about my repair list.

As far as age is concerned, the age of the hull means very little. What matters is the age of the sails, motor, condition of rigging, etc. I have seen 10 year old boats with soft decks, as well as boats from the late 60s in great shape. The other differences are as simple as interior design and layout. Newer boats tend to have larger feeling interiors, and generally care more about creature comfort. If you can, see if you can go sail on both, and go with the one you like more.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Duxa

Production boats have not changed much in the last 50 years as far as getting you from point A to point B. Safety (structurally) is pretty much the same, speeds are the same? Things that changed are the layout, electronics etc... is this a correct assumption?

Well, no.


1970s hull designs were heavily influenced by IOR racing. These have many drawbacks from a sailing/handling standpoint as well as having less cockpit space. There are articles and threads on this.



A 20 year old boat in a size suitable for cruising will have a sugar scoop stern with a swim step, which no 1970s boats have. Most 20 year old boats on the east or gulf coast will have a good, fixed, shallow-draft keel rather than a centerboard (maintenance intensive) or deep keel.


Compare the PHRF handicap for boats you're considering. Newer boats are generally faster due to changes in keel and rudder design and lighter weight.

.. is there any reason to get the 2005 over 1980 ? Refit would probably cost the same? But a good chunk can be saved on initial purchase price?

You will have more trouble getting your money out of a 1980s boat when you go to sell, that is, you're less likely to recover the purchase price and cost of the refit.


On a 50 year old boat there are things that are deteriorating to the point where they may affect safety and function and that are not ordinarily replaced during a refit, e.g. mast, portlights, hull to deck joint, chainplates, tankage. Sure, all these can be replaced at a cost, but the cost is considerable.

Obviously this all assumes that these boats have been taken care of and werent just left sitting (hence survey is the same).

Please educate me. Thanks!

You are making an implicit assumption that the surveyer will find everything that is wrong with the boat.



Good luck in your search.

[JBP]

Hmm, I tend to think that no, there is no hard and fast reason why you should choose a 20 year old boat over a 40 year boat if we postulate that they are in the same condition and quality. However it is highly unlikely that any 2 used boats that age range will be exactly the same. There will be differences in the quality, condition, engine, sails, rigging, layout, systems, design, etc. It really comes down to which boat will you love more. For me I would lean toward the 40 year old boat because I like the esthetics of them better than the slicker newer boats.

[Allied39]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This Bristol 27 crossed three oceans. The boat is a 1973 and was purchased for $1,000.

It's a Bristol so it was well built.

It was loaded with electronics to include a homemade autopilot built by the owner now called a Pypilot. The motor was a windshield wiper motor from a car.

https://pypilot.org/

It also had 600 watts of solar for power and a SSB receiver which was for weather reports I believe.

And your point?

Poor bloody boat is in it's last stage, so sad to see that level of neglect.

But it what it is and everything dies sooner or later.

[Tetepare]

People will cry I'm unfair, but I find Beneteaus haven't aged well. I was searching for a decent 430, looking at them from New York to Brisbane, and was unable to find one that was worth restoring. Then we looked at other common models in the high 30' and 40' range, with the same results; most were leaky and the laminated bulkheads had been wrecked.

That said, a guy on the west coast restored a Beneteau 430, and wanted top dollar for it. And a local guy sold his 45' Beneteau after losing his wife- this thing was perfect, and it too sold for top dollar...as in almost double what typical examples were selling for.

The greatest thing about Catalinas is catalinadirect.com. Sourcing replacement parts is easy, a situation unparalleled even for Hunters. If waffling between a set of production boats I'd go with Catalina simply because of CatalinaDirect (we sold the Catalina and bought a Hunter, and I can tell you it's a real PITA finding parts.)

Keep in mind it's the same hand effort to restore a Camaro SS as it is a Pinto, and the same holds true for boats. If you're going to use sweat equity to restore a boat, a Cape Dory will be worth more than a Beneteau when you're done, for the same amount of time and effort.

Stay away from anything with teak decks.

[pcmm]

One thing no one has mentioned...Insurance.

Insuring 40yo boats is starting to become an issue. Which is a shame as plenty of 40yo boats are in as good shape today as they were 40 years ago (some in better)

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Allied39

And your point?

Poor bloody boat is in it's last stage, so sad to see that level of neglect.

But it what it is and everything dies sooner or later.

I think you may not be able to see the trees due to the forest!

The boat already sailed across three oceans then was frozen near the southern end of the dismal swamp. The captain stayed warm while temps were in the low teens burning pine cones (which you can still see near the stern in the pictures below) in his homemade stove which I believe he constructed from an old propane tank.

Looks like he replaced the rigging with Dyneema.

Btw, Sean D' is a CF Member and has a different boat now. A trimaran I believe.

The full story in the links below.

https://towndock.net/shippingnews/se...-and-alexandra

https://svcrystalblues.blogspot.com/...ne-around.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbezaHPm_MU

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by pcmm

One thing no one has mentioned...Insurance.

Insuring 40yo boats is starting to become an issue. Which is a shame as plenty of 40yo boats are in as good shape today as they were 40 years ago (some in better)

The insurance on my 47 year old 1974 Bristol 27 is about $10/month for $500,000 liability.

[Jammer]

Many if not most marinas in the USA require full coverage.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by thomm225

The insurance on my 47 year old 1974 Bristol 27 is about $10/month for $500,000 liability.

You won't get into a marina anywhere near where I am with the little coverage. Standard is now $2m (same as auto liability coverage)

Problem is more and more insurers are not renewing policies on older boats (mine has now added the requirement for surveys for all plans, including liability only)