>42 foot bluewater sailboat purchase choices

[DEAN2140]

Regarding the comments on the Norseman 447, I owned an aft cockpit Norseman for 4 years and cruised it extensively in Mexico and the South Seas. I found the boat to have excessive weather helm. The helm was balanced only if I put in a reef, even in only 15 kts of wind.

After I sold the boat, I happened to bump into the boat's designer, Bob Perry, at a boat show. I mentioned to him that I owned the Norseman and he said without much enthusiasm that it wasn't a rocket ship. But when I mentioned the weather helm, he agreed and said the builder forced him to put the mast too far aft in order to satisfy the builder's requirements. I felt vindicated. Also the delivery crew that brought the boat back from Hawaii complained the boat leaked like a sieve and they often slept in their foulies. That said, we didn't have a problem with the upwind leg from Tahiti to Hawaii. Bear in mind, this is the aft cockpit model.

[philiosophy]

I think you should first really think long and hard about what you will actually do with the boat. A coastal cruiser will almost always have much more room inside. Room for family your big double bed etc. and it will probably sail better as well as be far easier to manuver. This isgoing to be an important point as the learning curve you are about to take on while very doable will take some mtime and effort. In your price range I believe it will be harder to find a Blue water boat that is in good condition that fits your needs.
That said in the Blue Water Catagory I believe the Hylas 44 center cockpit would be a very good choice. The Passport 4o or Passport 42 (Round Stern version but I believe the same interior design as the 40)
The Whitby 42 has heaps of room but doesn’t sail very well. The Westsails will be simular in sailing charectoristics being big heavy full keel boats.
The Norseman 447 is a great boat tho the rig is about on par with other production Coastal cruisers. I like it far better than the run of the mill production Coastal Cruisers.
The Tayana 55 is huge but so out of your price range. You might well look at the Stan Huntinford designs. They are probably in your price range and have cavernous interiors and big engine rooms. The last thing I will say is do your research on cost of owning and keeping up a Sailboat. It gets expotentially costlier with every couple of feet in length. Surprisingly so. Old boats that that havent been repowered and refitted can and will be costly. Lin and lLarry Pardy wrote a good book on the cost issues associated with owning and cruising a sailboat. Good idea ro read it. Best of luck from a 65 year old full time cruiser presently cruising in the South Western Pacific these past ten years

[dhuff1289]

Hi Frank - since you have obviously done some good research by including the Whitby 42 on your list, I would advise you to look at the Brewer 44. There is one in Titusville Fl for 99,000 that is well equipped. The Brewer was the Whitby 42 with some bluewater improvements if that was possible. Both would provide you with your stated requirements. Best of luck, and by all means make it happen! The frail flesh lasts only so long, as Hal Roth would say.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by SuW

So, why not consider a bigger catamaran? Some nice boats out there.

Not in his budget for sure.

I think I would start with a fairly long shortlist of possible boats rather than narrowing in on one specific boat. This would allow you to pick the best specific boat - the one in the best condition with the best fit out. What you want to find is the boat that someone spent a great deal of time and money on for longer distance cruising ... and then didn't go for some reason ranging from loss to interest to death. If you choose one specific model you really limit the possibility of finding this special boat.

[SuW]

This nice boat came up on the Bayfield yahoo group. It's well equipped and would probably do what you want:

1988 Bayfield 36 Cutter Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, Canada - Sunnybrook Yachts

$75K Canadian is <$60K USD.

[White Cloud1]

https://www.calibreyachts.com/broker...ant-40-cutter/

[Riggerman]

Having not read all of the post, I'll just answer to the original question, and just throw in My 2 cents. I have been sailing a 1986, 43 Irwin Center cockpit for the last 10 years ( My 8th boat) Center cockpit will give you a nice queen size Island aft berth compare to an aft cockpit, and also a descent size V berth. I have 7 ft head room, 2 heads, nice workable galley, and very large nav station. Engine room is accessible from 4 side. Mind you one side is mainly for the front of the engine. At your budget it is extremely doable. I do prefer older boats. The reason being, is that they did not skip on material like fiberglass, wood and stainless steel like they do today. Mine was built like a tank. When the accountants got involved with boat building, they started to shave on every thing. I would buy older, and put the rest of the money in reno and up-grades. I paid $61,000 for mine 10 years ago, it had watermaker, solar and wind power, radar, stand up fridge with freezer. tons of spare parts and more then enough place to buy more spare parts LOL. The first year I put $15,000 in new gears electronics and such. Every year I throw in at least $5,000 in renovations. I prefer a sloop because I am a solo sailor, all lines lead to the cockpit. I live and sail on it 10 months year and I am very happy with it so far and the last 10 years. Oh and one more thing that is EXTREMELY important is keel depth. Mine is 5'9 and extremely stable because of the 9,000 lbs keel. Now why is the keel depth soooooo important? It depends where you want to go. If you want to visit places like Belize, you will be limited to just a couple of places and will miss all the good anchors in the 100's of Islands. Going to spend the Hurrican season in RioDulce with the 500 other boaters. With a 7 ft keel you will need to be leaned over to go over the sand bar. Me I go in an out of the RioDulce at any time and any tides. By the way there the tide is only 1 ft. So decide where you want to go, what you want to do, and don't forget to choose the right keel. Good luck.

[stnick]

In my mind it narrowes down to the designer. A good design and a good builder are a great team. Sometimes the builder cuts corners. ! Just be awair. Bob Perry , Ted Brewer etc.
There are design books I have 3 they are 18x11 big . show designs drawings and explane why its designed that way . The book Sailing Designs by Bob Perry he reviews hundreds of designs explanining why its that way and the PRO and Cons .Lots of design drawings . I have 3 of these some of my most treasured books. Thank You Bob Perry .

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Is $135,000 your one year budget?


Back out:
$10,000 shipping or transport
$5,000 dockage
$15,000 repairs


Then, if you want to fix the real problem:
$10,000 sailing lessons for two
$5,000 diesel course
$2,000 electrical course


That leaves $83,000 for the boat. And I went light on the repairs, maybe up to $40,000 light.


If you don't have a dinghy, a big guy like you is going to need a big, solid dinghy so budget another $8000.


Now we're down to $35,000 for the boat.



Get a white hull. That way when it gets banged into the dock there isn't a $5000 repaint.


Add the max TowBoatUS fee and insurance to sail the Pacific- knock out another $2000.


Get new fenders, the largest you can find- that's another $400.


MOB and EPIRB for everyone, another $1500. Quality foul weather gear (XXL) $600. Wife's gear $600.


Get a bigger anchor. Whatever it comes with, get a larger one. $800.


Rub strip all the way around (rubber, installed) $1000


Charts...oh, forget the charts.


That should get you started.

I assume this was an attempt at humor since every point was so ridiculous.

[Riggerman]

I agree. with Kenomac. Those number don't make sense at all.

So it has to be either a joke, or an other airline pilot giving His opinion LOL.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Riggerman

I agree. with Kenomac. Those number don't make sense at all.

So it has to be either a joke, or an other airline pilot giving His opinion LOL.

Are the number really that far off? Boats we’ve looked at require between $15000 and $40000 to get safe and seaworthy. Transport quotes for east coast have been in the 10000 range. Annual dockage of $5000 is typical. Local college diesel course (not the four hour special) that’s the price. Etc.

If somebody has insights to reducing expenses on a used boat purchase I’m all ears!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

Are the number really that far off? Boats we’ve looked at require between $15000 and $40000 to get safe and seaworthy. Transport quotes for east coast have been in the 10000 range. Annual dockage of $5000 is typical. Local college diesel course (not the four hour special) that’s the price. Etc.

If somebody has insights to reducing expenses on a used boat purchase I’m all ears!

Your mind seems to already be convinced of the high prices, so all I need to add is that we recently purchased an excellect aluminum dinghy from Costco for $599 along with a brand new Mercury 15hp two stroke for $750. Nearly $7000 less than your esimate.

It pays to shop around.

[Riggerman]

I agree that some boats could need 15 to 40 gran to make safe, only thing is I would not buy such a boat, so that equation is out. But yes I would sink $15 gran for up grades, but that would be included in My budget.

Now 10 gran for sailing lessons ???? really ?????? Not a chance in hell I am paying 10 gran for lessons.

What ever anchor it comes with get a bigger one ????? Seriously ???? put a bigger one on My boat would be ridiculous. That anchor was bought because it was the maximum this boat needed.

8 grand for a dinghy ? who said that boat did not come with a dinghy. Also the way I read his needs a 10,3 RIB would be proper for him, good quality RIB are $3,300 to $3,600. Why would He need a tug because he is 6'6" and a 10.3 RIB is maxed out at 15HP and that is quite enough. I have a 15HP on My 12 ft RIB and I plane quite easily with 2 people.

10 gran shipping and transport ???? what shipping an transport ??? he did not buy it yet did he ???? I bought My last boat in Curacao I sailed it My self. If I could not have done it, there are plenty of people that would love to do it for you, some avid sailor with proper qualifications can be found on many site like "findacrew.net" Some charges lots of money, some charges less money just so they can sail on a boat and cannot afford one. Buy the way if you are talking "transport" from east to west, well that is more like 25 to 35 grand.

5 gran for diesel courses ???? I have yet to know someone that spend that much money on such a course. Every marinas has old farts like Me that have lived on or around boats and give advice for free. We also from time to time give a hand pulling engines out, wiring boats, installing solar and/or wind generator. Also there are plenty of information's on the net. That is where I learned such things as "dump load diverter" or the difference between MPPT and and PMW also what gauge for what distance at what voltage. It is all there for the taking.

Rub rail ??? he did not buy the boat yet, who says He need rub rail ???

Like I said those number are a joke. but My fingers are tired, but I can go on and on and on.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Your mind seems to already be convinced of the high prices, so all I need to add is that we recently purchased an excellect aluminum dinghy from Costco for $599 along with a brand new Mercury 15hp two stroke for $750. Nearly $7000 less than your esimate.

It pays to shop around.

RIB with an Aluminum reinforced bottom is what I meant. Hydroforce model.

[Paul Emmanuel]

I, too, wanted a Valiant or Tayana 40-42 but decided the cockpit was just too small for what I was planning - that is to have my kids and grandkids cruise with me. I found a Gulfstar 45 Hirsch CC sloop; two cabins, fore and aft and two heads, lots of headroom (I'm 6' and the head liner is not close) and an extremely solid hull with a giant cockpit. She is 1986 and needed more work than the surveyor found, but I'm almost done now and she is a surprisingly good sailer. Best in your search.