50ft+ Hanse, Beneteau, etc slamming?

[mglonnro]

Cheers,

I'm really interested in hearing from people sailing the bigger recent years Hanses, Beneteaus, Jeanneaus upwind in fresh offshore conditions. Is it enjoyable? Do you do it much?

My first deep dive into offshore upwind sailing was as a crew member on an X-Yachts IMX-38 from Bergen to Shetland in the early 2000s. We were going upwind with more than 40 knots of true wind, and it was quite the experience. If I remember it correctly, the slamming "explosions" were substantial, and walking away from that safe and sound, I realized these boats were actually designed to take _a lot_ of beating without being damaged.

How about today? Are you comfortably crashing into 25-30 knots of headwind and waves with your Hanse 575, Beneteau Oceanis 50+, Jeanneau 50+ sailboats?

[Greatest Lakes]

My dad has the Jeanneau 57. It slams, but one you get used to it, and decide it isn't going to shatter, you just enjoy it. My older boats, a Hunter 37 cherubini and a Columbia 9.6, are not nearly as fast, any slamming from those is a result of a wave hitting the side just right.

[Zanshin]

I have done the 100 mile upwind slog from the British Virgin Islands to St. Martin over 20 times - probably more often. It is a nasty passage. One is usually fighting the big Atlantic waves plus going directly upwind. Waves are usually 1.5m at their best (if you get a good weather-window) and always disorganized and wind is 15+ knots. You get two kinds of wave shapes on the way, the shallow waters around the islands and then the deep waters in between and the difference is noticeable.

I don't think that there is a boat out there that won't slam, even if one sails off the wind there will be frequent "rogue" waves from a different direction that will slam. The boats shudder, slow down or stop, and then repeat.

My first boat, a Jeanneau 43DS, would essentially stop then pick up speed again until the next wave hits. I currently sail a Jeanneau 57 which weighs in at 60,000lbs so it only slows down and shudders a bit and then continues on the way.

Even these production boats are built for these conditions and can certainly take more punishment than the crew. That doesn't mean that I'd want to enter the Vendee Globe in my Jeanneau.

[Joli]

Friends with a large Hanse said they would not have sailed the passage we did last fall in their boat. They didn't think their boat could physically do it. Five days of beating, 30 degree AWA, up to 55 knots and 20' waves. Triple reefed and a staysail. We're hoping that this year's passage isn't a repeat.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

I don't think that there is a boat out there that won't slam, even if one sails off the wind there will be frequent "rogue" waves from a different direction that will slam. The boats shudder, slow down or stop, and then repeat.

This assumption that "all boats do it" is just plain WRONG, certainly not to the same degree, or even close. There is a fundamental difference between the "modern" boat designed with a wide, VERY flat bottom, and a more traditional design with rounded entries.

Once upon a time "sea kindliness" was one of the most desirable features a boat could have. Now, it is never talked about by most builders because the boat's they build are the very opposite and we are supposed to "get used to it."

Bull.

For what it's worth, all the "Hanse, Beneteau and etc" DO pound mercilessly going up wind in anything rougher than a light chop. Even the biggest ones. They all have the same hull shape optimized for interior volume for the charter market.

Even the fanboys of these boats admit it, and tell you you will learn to enjoy it. Yeah. Right. Like a root canal.

[Zanshin]

BillKny - I don't know what you've sailed or perhaps read, but I've got about 15000 sea miles in Jeanneaus, and I've sailed all sorts of boats and none of them won't "pound" in the right conditions. The best of the lot are old classic Swan hulls with fine entries built like a tank in the 70's; and they will pound. My hull shape is not flat bottomed, but if the wave is steep and long enough and at the right angle it will pound somewhere between the bow and the keel.
How much beating a boat can take is another matter.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Cheers,

I'm really interested in hearing from people sailing the bigger recent years Hanses, Beneteaus, Jeanneaus upwind in fresh offshore conditions. Is it enjoyable? Do you do it much?

It is hard on the boat and hard on the crew. However, I do it for money.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Joli

Friends with a large Hanse said they would not have sailed the passage we did last fall in their boat. They didn't think their boat could physically do it. Five days of beating, 30 degree AWA, up to 55 knots and 20' waves. Triple reefed and a staysail. We're hoping that this year's passage isn't a repeat.

What route was that passage?

Sounds miserable.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by hpeer

What route was that passage?

Sounds miserable.

Last year to the Caribbean from the Chesapeake. It was ok but certainly not one of our better sails, the worst part was falling off large waves without any back to them. The rum flowed freely upon arrival.

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Joli

Friends with a large Hanse said they would not have sailed the passage we did last fall in their boat. They didn't think their boat could physically do it. Five days of beating, 30 degree AWA, up to 55 knots and 20' waves. Triple reefed and a staysail. We're hoping that this year's passage isn't a repeat.

Oh

That sounds terrible.

May I ask what boat you are sailing?

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

I don't think that there is a boat out there that won't slam, even if one sails off the wind there will be frequent "rogue" waves from a different direction that will slam. The boats shudder, slow down or stop, and then repeat.

Originally Posted by BillKny

This assumption that "all boats do it" is just plain WRONG, certainly not to the same degree, or even close. There is a fundamental difference between the "modern" boat designed with a wide, VERY flat bottom, and a more traditional design with rounded entries.

Once upon a time "sea kindliness" was one of the most desirable features a boat could have. Now, it is never talked about by most builders because the boat's they build are the very opposite and we are supposed to "get used to it."

I can imagine it's possible to avoid all slamming, but surely different boats will behave differently.

I had a Dehler 34 (from 1990) earlier, and I think that and the IMX-38 (from the 1990s as well) felt quite similar going upwind. Our recent brand new Hanse 388 felt heavier (well, it was ), less nimble, and I think also a bit more prone to slamming than the 90s boats I've owned. It's just a feeling, however, and I don't have any data to support that.

Dehler 34:


IMX-38:


Hanse 388:

[mglonnro]

Originally Posted by mglonnro

I had a Dehler 34 (from 1990) earlier, and I think that and the IMX-38 (from the 1990s as well) felt quite similar going upwind. Our recent brand new Hanse 388 felt heavier (well, it was ), less nimble, and I think also a bit more prone to slamming than the 90s boats I've owned. It's just a feeling, however, and I don't have any data to support that.

"Brewer's Comfort Ratio" didn't quite support that feeling

- Dehler 34: 18.93
- IMX-38: 19.95
- Hanse 388: 26.32

[Searles]

Read the report from New Zealand maratime report on the recent loss of a so called off shore modern cruiser racer ,conditions weren’t that bad or that good ,boat gave up big time ,result loss of owner skipper ,crew saved ,no need to read between the lines ,it’s all there ,

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Joli

Friends with a large Hanse said they would not have sailed the passage we did last fall in their boat. They didn't think their boat could physically do it. Five days of beating, 30 degree AWA, up to 55 knots and 20' waves. Triple reefed and a staysail. We're hoping that this year's passage isn't a repeat.

Originally Posted by Joli

Last year to the Caribbean from the Chesapeake. It was ok but certainly not one of our better sails, the worst part was falling off large waves without any back to them. The rum flowed freely upon arrival.

Originally Posted by mglonnro

Oh
That sounds terrible.

It ain't called The Thorny Path for nuthin'!

LittleWing77

[boatman61]

Isn't the Thorney Path the passage from Florida to the E Caribe into currents and headwinds..
Chesapeake to E Caribe is a doddle normally, out to Bermuda then down the I 66.. mind you, if the Bahamas is one's idea of the Caribe then your just heading back into the crap.