$75-100K to spend. Hunter 450, 460, Beneteau?

[Captrico]

Hi,

New to the group. I have been out of the sailing game for some years now, and I am fed up living in Wales with the rain and the politics. My parents both passed away within a year of each other recently and I have no desire to go through another cold wet winter here in the land of song. Im selling up the house and all of my non essential items and am planning to get on a plane with 1 carry on and 1 checked bag and head out!

Im 55 and single, no kids or baggage and have no financial commitments to deal with and have been looking at some of the boats out on the market. My experience with sailboats goes back to the mid 90s when i owned a Beneteau 38 down in Keywest. That was my first taste of the sailing community and i loved it. I sold that boat a year later and sure missed it once it was gone. I had another much older 31ft full keel in 2017 which i played around on (lived) in Ft Myers Fl. and that was fun, but FM wasnt really the ideal place for a sailboat. The river is a menace and I was always getting stuck in the shallow water off the channel. So i got rid of that boat too.

My plan is to return back to the states, florida i think, and start shopping for a long term live aboard that i can call home for some time. I have looked at many of the boats in the fleet and its really quite a task picking out an ideal boat for me. I have decided that a 38 may be a bit too small but i have not ruled that out. I do like the boats that are mid to low 40s but the prices creep up to my limit of spending. I really like the Beneteau line of boats but they are still quite expensive for the ones that have lots of gear included. The bare to the bones are affordable but then im looking at quite an expensive bill for the upgrades and essentials i will need.
I did like the looks of the Hunter 450 and 460 and was impressed by their comfort levels below deck. I was also pleased to see that they did not cost an arm and a leg for what you get either. Any thoughts on these boats? I liked the Passage, and my only niggle was the center cockpit design. I am used to the aft cockpit and never really liked the traveller above my head or the feeling of being stuck in the middle of the boat when sailing. The Hunter did look like it had a good access to the transom though. I am not so concerned about having a massive owners cabin, but would like a 2 cabin layout and use the #2 for storage and whatnot. The Hunter did have great looking cabins though. I would like to be self sufficient, so when not at dock i can use all my electrics (microwave, tv, computer (starlink?)
I wondered if looking for an older boat thats packed with all the upgrades (tools, dinghy, solar, water, A/c, etc) is the way to go?

The plan is to travel around florida a bit and visit some of the brokers and see the boats in person and be a cash buyer. I was wondering where a good area would be to start my shopping? Any pitfalls i should consider doing it this way? And what about paying sales tax as a non resident? Although i was a resident there in 2019.

Anyways, thats the outline of my plan. Still early days, but i think after the new year i will be ready to start the hunt. Any tips on boats, seller markets, or what to avoid would be welcome. Thanks!

[more]

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/200...ia-47-9275536/
buy this. this all bavaria made from 1997-2008 is strongest boat on market.super easy maintenance, super quality bulid. so strong in croatia lost this boat are in charter after 20 year and all look like brand new and always in better shape s other including bavaria 3-4 year old.
usually no intervention (call from customer fail) 2-3 year or 60 week other new have intervention every 10 week or brand new every 4 week

[Captrico]

Yes, very nice boat. 3 cabins not exactly what i want, but looks strong. I hear alot of usedboats in La Pez, Mexico. Wonder why?

[leecea]

I assume there are a lot in La Paz because the Sea of Cortez is a popular cruising area.

We have a smaller Hunter and we like the space and layout. We found that you get a slightly newer or bigger Hunter for the money because some people don't like the brand. It's hard to tell whether there are actual issues with Hunters versus other production boats. When we were looking I couldn't find any facts to support it one way or another, just a lot of opinions. There is a Hunter Owners forum where you might get specific model info, if you want it.

[sailorboy1]

As someone who just ended 14 years of Hunter 410 ownership including 7.5 year full time cruising on it, I can say that you most likely will get negative info here about anything Hunter. Go to the below and ask owners:

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/ca...ner-forums.35/

[Statistical]

Having been out of the sailing game for a while and likely looking at I assume some single handed work are you sure 38 feet is too small. 38 feet is pretty decent size for long distance cruising single handed or even as a cruising couple if things change.

The snobs will scoff at Hunters but they are good bang for the buck if doing coastal cruising and island hopping in the caribbean. We actually just closed on a Hunter 340 last week and are thrilled. Prior boat was a "blue water" Tayana 37. Personally I think a Hunter 450/460 would be great but it is a lot of boat and with it big boat maintenance bills. If you are going to sail around the world and want a big boat and are accepting of the Hunter brand then arguably the Hunter Passage line is some of the best boats they ever made. Hunter vs Hunter Legend is the same boat just depends on where it was sold. Hunter Passage was built to a different sets of specs and Hunter's goal of expanding into deep offshore designs. There is a Hunter Passage 42. Not sure if they made any smaller.

One thing about Hunters is most of them from the era you are likely looking at have B&R rigs. I don't think B&R rigs are as terrible as some people make them out to be but honestly they are overly complicated for IMHO little benefit and also have poor wing on wing sailing. For us it wasn't enough of a negative to exclude them though.

[more]

Originally Posted by Captrico

Yes, very nice boat. 3 cabins not exactly what i want, but looks strong. I hear alot of usedboats in La Pez, Mexico. Wonder why?

what you want 45 ft with 2 cabin
this is rare to see bavaria 45 vision i think have 3 cabin.

PS more cabin is not any problem. what you want 1 cabin and sleep with tool,spare parts.wher you planing keeping your staff.
my friend say buy 5 cabin always you this bunk cabin easy convert in closet for your belongs. if you short with place you can do nothing. if you have mental problem have 3 rooms,lock door with 2 rest room volai you have 1 room boat

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Statistical

The snobs will scoff at Hunters but they are good bang for the buck if doing coastal cruising and island hopping in the caribbean.

More like snob pretenders. They aspire to be snobs.

One thing about Hunters is most of them from the era you are likely looking at have B&R rigs. I don't think B&R rigs are as terrible as some people make them out to be but honestly they are overly complicated for IMHO little benefit and also have poor wing on wing sailing. For us it wasn't enough of a negative to exclude them though.

It’s rare anyone should ever have to sail DDW so the issue is largely moot.

[Reeve21]

You can get an older Catalina 42 in your price range with a walk through transom and a massive owner's cabin and huge head forward (which I much prefer for ventilation, having slept in both ends of various boats). This boat will be a palace for one guy and it has a small second head for occasional guests or daytime use.

Most of the ones you'll find in Florida will have the shoal draft wing keel, a touch under 5 feet. Might have to hunt for an older 2 cabin version, most of the Mark I boats had double aft cabins (which is kind of nice for storage purposes, especially if you have A/C taking up other storage space).

One of the best things about this brand is that the manufacturer is still around and there is an independent parts supplier called Catalina Direct. Between the 2 of them you will be able to replace any part on the boat.

After owning 3 boats where the manufacturer was out of business this has been a great benefit to now owning a Catalina. I'm not sure all other things were equal, but if they were parts availability might have been a tie breaker.

[Captrico]

Thanks everyone for the information. Now I remember why I enjoyed the sailing community so much back when I had a boat. Everyone is always helpful and keen to help out at a drop of a hat. There certainly is alot of choices and avenues I can go down. I think what will happen is I will start looking at boats and want all of them. �� Each one will have something that stands out above the rest and it will be like a kid in a candy shop. I agree that a 45' is alot of boat for 1 person, but I think I can manage. A 38 is ideal but I remember my Beneteau 38 seemed a bit close quarters sometimes. The cabins were a bit tight and not so user friendly. It was a fast nimble boat though. Definitely a breeze to sail in the Keys. I always had my eye on the 473, which i think had an owners version, but they are quite expensive still in think. I'm not worried about the snobby sailors who look down on the Hunter boats. I probably don't need those people around me anyways. My main goal is a comfortable boat that can keep me occupied and also be my home and a place to unwind and perhaps meet some new people. There are always bigger and better boats out there, but for me I'm just happy getting out on the water and finding something to tinker around with every day. I remember there is always something that needs fixing, upgrading, taken apart, this and that. Other than Ft Lauderdale and the Keys, where are good places for used sailboats in Fl? And is S Cali any good for finding a decent boat? I see alot of San Diego boats online, and wondered if the pricing was similar?

[BMD21]

I second looking at Catalina. My experience with them has been outstanding. The biggest I owned was a 36'; but I took it to the South Pacific, Alaska and the East Coast. Nothing of the boat broke. I think they're well made and they're cheap.


I think the fact that they're in Florida and still there speaks volumes.


Boris

[Jim Greer]

I have a 2000 Beneteau 461. I recently upgraded all the electronics, have solar and the two cabin layout. I am 64 and more often that not, are single handling the vessel. I find the boat a wee light at 23,000 lbs and can get tossed about in an aggravated seaway. On a recent trip I was burying the bow in 6-8 ft waves beating into 25-30 knots of wind. Managing 7.5 knots with a reefed genny and main. The next day it was blowing 25-35 from astern, with half a genny only, still making 9 plus knots. We did a Boston to Lunenburg NS. last summer averaged 6 knots over the 63 hours it took to get there. I would think twice about an ocean passage without some mods;
1. Somehow, add secondary cockpit winches. It makes it hard to fly the code zero without them.
2, Again, Somehow, remove the baby stay and add a proper inner forestay for a storm/ self tending jib.
3, I have a 10'6' RIB on davits. There is no room on deck for it.
5, It has a 50 gallon tank for diesel, would prefer more.
6, Like all boats in her class, Bavaria, Hunter Jenneau etc, all get a wee difficult to handle in a heavy following sea and more often than not, the autohelm cannot keep up.

What I like:
1, two cabin two head layout.
2, Very large cockpit locker due to the lack of the third cabin.
3, In mast furling and jib roller furling allows all sail adjustments to be made from the cockpit.
4, I have a complete cockpit enclosure to keep me out of the weather.
5, 150 gallons in three water tanks.
6, 12 volt refrigeration always running thanks to the 4 solar panels and 4 large batteries, with 110vAC inverter.
7, double backstays.

I have not made any serious repairs in my ownership. I will however, have the rudder and cutlass bearings replaced this winter.
Hope this helps
Good luck with your search.

[Captrico]

Originally Posted by Jim Greer

I have a 2000 Beneteau 461. I recently upgraded all the electronics, have solar and the two cabin layout. I am 64 and more often that not, are single handling the vessel. I find the boat a wee light at 23,000 lbs and can get tossed about in an aggravated seaway. On a recent trip I was burying the bow in 6-8 ft waves beating into 25-30 knots of wind. Managing 7.5 knots with a reefed genny and main. The next day it was blowing 25-35 from astern, with half a genny only, still making 9 plus knots. We did a Boston to Lunenburg NS. last summer averaged 6 knots over the 63 hours it took to get there. I would think twice about an ocean passage without some mods;
1. Somehow, add secondary cockpit winches. It makes it hard to fly the code zero without them.
2, Again, Somehow, remove the baby stay and add a proper inner forestay for a storm/ self tending jib.
3, I have a 10'6' RIB on davits. There is no room on deck for it.
5, It has a 50 gallon tank for diesel, would prefer more.
6, Like all boats in her class, Bavaria, Hunter Jenneau etc, all get a wee difficult to handle in a heavy following sea and more often than not, the autohelm cannot keep up.

What I like:
1, two cabin two head layout.
2, Very large cockpit locker due to the lack of the third cabin.
3, In mast furling and jib roller furling allows all sail adjustments to be made from the cockpit.
4, I have a complete cockpit enclosure to keep me out of the weather.
5, 150 gallons in three water tanks.
6, 12 volt refrigeration always running thanks to the 4 solar panels and 4 large batteries, with 110vAC inverter.
7, double backstays.

I have not made any serious repairs in my ownership. I will however, have the rudder and cutlass bearings replaced this winter.
Hope this helps
Good luck with your search.

Yes, they are great boats. I have looked at the 473 as well. Nice layouts and a great vessel. Hard to find in my budget though. You can still find the older 50s here and there, but they are usually bare to bones and have the 4 cabin charter boat set up.
There are so many ways to go with the search. I hear the older Hunter Legend is a good boat (late 80s years) and is not the same as the newer Hunter boats. Apparently you get a lot of boat for the money. Hunter has 2 different productions of boats apparently.
I do like the Passage but i have never sailed much with the traveller set up the way it is on the c.cockpits. I always like the way the aft cockpits felt somehow. The Passage (450 460) does have a nice transom swim platform access which i did like. Also the living arrangement inside is really nice. I usually stay in the cockpit or the salon so im not too fussed on a fancy cabin, but im OK with it if its available.

What are you planning on doing with your boat? Is it your home or just for your adventures?

Thanks for your comments.

[CarlF]

Things to consider:

In Florida (and The Bahamas where you will surely spend a lot of time) shoal draft is really important. While you can get by with 6ft a draft under 5ft opens up many wonderful anchorages denied to deeper draft boats. And a draft under 4ft even more so.

Also on the East Coast do not consider a boat with a mast height over 63' so you can use the ICW. Many desirable areas in Florida can only be reached on the ICW going under a 64-65ft bridge.

Do not underestimate the money you'll have to spend after purchase. This is always much more than people expect. Not because the boat has survey issues but simple livability such as the 20 year old mattress foam makes your back hurt when you sleep. Have at least $25,000 available for repairs and upgrades after you own the boat.

While people have all sorts of schemes to avoid Florida sales tax, the only reliable one is to register in a lower tax state (RI is zero tax) and for the first year spend very little time in Florida. In the end, most people decide it's easier to spend the 6% - although it's quite possible to spend your first year farther north and go to The Bahamas for winter. After a year Florida won't pursue you on sales tax (although they could, it's not really enforced). Be sure to make your residence for tax purposes also in a state other than Florida.

Given your Florida/Bahamas plans I would look at Island Packet 35, 37 and 38. Very well built. Smaller than you want but a great size for a single hander. The smaller sails are much easier for one person to handle especially with the cutter rig. Island Packets have lots of interior volume and LOTS of storage. Also shoal draft. With the centerboard up both draw only 4.5ft (if you are lucky enough to find a centerboard version, draft is under 4' with the board up). Not a common boat on your side of the pond but VERY common in the US among full time cruisers like yourself. Unlike the other boats you are considering Island Packets were designed for full time cruisers.

[zeilersailor]

Hey Captrico,

I have a Hunter Legend 45 for sale in Belgium.
We've switched to a motorboat.

PM me if you like more info and pictures.
willygregoir at hotmail.com

Regards,
Willy