Adding Square Sails ?

[Ben M-P]

Pyrate,
Great post thanks. I figured that those where rigged that way originally.
I love the canons, alas a bit out of our price range.

Is there a good book on rigging for the older rigs ( with squares and fore and aft sails) and newer ones, particularly the therory behind designing sail plans?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by vintageray

Yeah, not real practical, but it sure looks salty, doesn't it?
I still want to look into kite sails. Looked at the twistle rig and that's a lot of stuff.

Surely the modern day equivalent of a square sail is a spinnaker? which looks a lot less complicated than a square sail.

For those with lots of spare cash there is also the para sailor, but not cheap.

Parasailor - Product Details

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Ben M-P

Pyrate,
Great post thanks. I figured that those where rigged that way originally.
I love the canons, alas a bit out of our price range.

Is there a good book on rigging for the older rigs ( with squares and fore and aft sails) and newer ones, particularly the therory behind designing sail plans?

The Sailmaker's Apprentice is worth a read. Written by Emilliano Marino.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Surely the modern day equivalent of a square sail is a spinnaker? which looks a lot less complicated than a square sail.

For those with lots of spare cash there is also the para sailor, but not cheap.

Parasailor - Product Details

I've never sailed a squaresail but isn't it the case they will go downwind whereas a spinnaker needs the wind off the beam?

[Simes]

Hi Ben MP,

I agree with you it does look great and they are a treat to sail down wind. You will also find Squares on a good number of Schooners. You will need a fairly tough mast in way of the hounds, a strong block (haliyard) just above the hounds, and a very stable hull to be able to support the additional weight aloft.
Our Schooner was designed to carry a Square but even so it is a lot of work to build it in. It will be worth the effort if we are doing a long trade wind passage but Gaff rigs work well down wind anyway.
You ask about books, well I have not found many, I agree that The Sailmakers Apprentice is superb also very good is Brion Toss, The Riggers Apprentice, Try Hervey Garrett Smith's "Marlinline Seamanship" or search "Classic Boat" magazine there have been a couple of articles on Square rig in recent years.

Simes

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by hummingway

I've never sailed a squaresail but isn't it the case they will go downwind whereas a spinnaker needs the wind off the beam?

hmm, only flown a spinnaker a few times and don't currently own one, only an asymmetric, but I thought they were for points of sail from beam reach to dead downwind?

Okay, were are the CF spinnaker gurus?

Pete

[H/V Vega]

I some how stumbled on the pictures of our Historic Vessel Vega above and was glad to see someone is going to our site. That square sail is about 110 sq meters and we set it "flying" from the deck. It is actually the easiest sail on the boat to set and recover. I have helped several modern boats rig up "running sails like ours and all seem to be very happy with them. For a yard I suggest an old alu mast and for the sail just use light cloth sewn flat... no need for a sail maker here just make the seams and attachment points strong enough to take the power those sails produce. BTW that sail is much much easier to manage than a spinkar.

[Joli]

Modern rig design precludes the use of any "yards". The shrouds are in the way. Want to go downwind? Add a second jib or fly a kite.

[Ben M-P]

Originally Posted by H/V Vega

I some how stumbled on the pictures of our Historic Vessel Vega above and was glad to see someone is going to our site. That square sail is about 110 sq meters and we set it "flying" from the deck. It is actually the easiest sail on the boat to set and recover. I have helped several modern boats rig up "running sails like ours and all seem to be very happy with them. For a yard I suggest an old alu mast and for the sail just use light cloth sewn flat... no need for a sail maker here just make the seams and attachment points strong enough to take the power those sails produce. BTW that sail is much much easier to manage than a spinkar.

Thank for the information.Glade to see you here, I have to tell you that the your vega is one of my favorite vessels.
I have visited your site many time to look at your pictures and try to figure out how the square was rigged. Do you have any diagrams or sketches of how to rig the square sails and how they are used? I have a basic knowledge of the theory but have never actually sailed on a square rigged vessel.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by Pyrate

BTW, the two ships you pictured are not cruising boats that have been converted to square sail rigs. They were designed for them in the first place. I'm not as familiar with the second one, but the first picture is of the Royaliste. And, if you have the money, she's for sale. Royaliste - Gaff Rigged Square Tops'l Tall Ship. Additionally, beyond square sails, she has cannons, which add more profoundly to the look, and sound, of a traditional rigged boat.

I'm buying this one, when I plan to sail to Somalia.

[H/V Vega]

First take a long look at your rig. A drawing seen from the top down will help here. Now imagine a yard about 2.2 times the beam of your boat (this can vary depending on your deck space from 1.5 - 2.5) hoist it under your main stay but not all the way up. Then look to see how far it can brace around for running and reaching at different angles. Don't worry about getting windward or even more than a slight close reach out of it. Think of this sail in your case as a running / reaching sail only. The sail size will be about 75 cm less than the total yard across the top (this allows for the blocks you will use to hoist the sail) and a hoist that gives you just enough forward visibility to make steering easy. Remember the sail will "lift" a bit when it fills. Now comes the "playing around" part. If you have the yard tight against the mast it will be hard to brace around far enough t be useful, so unless you are very lucky you will need to make a crane to hold it off the mast and help it reach around the shrouds. If I can figure out how to post images I will put one up we made for a friends boat that works pretty well. His rig we made from an old alu mast section but much depends on how big your boat is and how long your yard will be. If you play around with what you have now and still want more then let me know and I will try and post the next steps for you. It really is easy and that will become your favorite and one of your most yseful sails. After all knowone has ever managed to jibe a square sail and they are much easier - and safer- to launch and recover than the modern stuff. For running NOTHING beats them.

[H/V Vega]

In my experience spinnakers are complicated to set and recover and can be tough to manage- they do tend to have lives of their own. I know of several boats that were knocked down by their spinnakers. With square running sails that is not really a problem. The forces are dynamically balanced so easy to manage.

[Ben M-P]

Thanks that is a huge help.

[H/V Vega]

No Problem our running sail is the most used sail and easiest to manage on the boat. 110 sq meters go out easy and recover just as easily. the key is to play around with the idea in your head and with drawings until you work out what can fit for your rig. Remember you will be haulling the yard around on deck when not in use, for the windage if no other reason, so consider that also. We leave ours up most of the time but there are many reasons for that which would not apply to your case. If you want I will try and explain more after you have played with your drawings and eye-balling.

[wolfenzee]

I thought of a possible square rig for my boat...sort of
A military surplus HALO paracute (rectangular paracute 13'x23', about $75). I would probably need a 20-23' yard, the control lines from the cute would lead back to my pair of 2-speed winches. It is an idea I have toyed with awhile. This is what I have to work with (note forestay is detachable and can be attached to the stem head)
: