Adventure 40

[Don C L]

Hmmm, yeah about taking that hard grounding claim, I have my doubts. It just reminded me of a time many years ago when our company was buying white water dories and a gentleman came by with his fiberglass dory for our consideration. He claimed it could hit a rock and remain undamaged. To prove it he flipped the boat over and smacked it with a sledge hammer on the bottom. Naturally the bottom flexed and the hammer bounced off of it. He said, "here you try!" One of the crew took the hammer and smacked it on the chine, where most hits occur, and a big chunk of glass was pretty badly damaged. Easy to repair perhaps, but his claims of remaining "undamaged" were exposed as false advertising before his eyes. He didn't look too happy about us damaging his boat too!

[TrentePieds]

Luvverly renderings, but any computer nerd can do luvverly renderings. And finished computer renderings cannot be anything OTHER than luvverly. So wot about the lines? Ah, yes, too easy to nick! We all know that.

So we are down to the accommodations plan. And what's here to write home about? What I see is another Ikea interior that might sell well to ladies who only go to sea to please their husbands, and whose husbands only go to sea when they are permitted. Very sensible from a business pointaview. A boat factory can't survive by doing anything else, so let's not quibble.

But where are the designer's performance desiderata? Where are the designer's accommodations desiderata? Where are the equipment lists?

Price? Why bother? Just before covid, a Fast Passage39, William Garden designed and built by Jespersen's, fully found with all the gizmos, just in from a circumnavigation and ready to go again the day tomorrow sold for Can$65K in our marina. So why buy new? If you are 'plugged in' you can find deals like that.

So unless a designer offers something that is truly innovative, he really offers nothing that isn't already available. True innovation doesn't happen often in a "science" that is as empirical as ours is, and where every designer stands on the shoulders of designers wot went before him :-)!

Or are we just being asked to do half the designer's work for him?

Bonne chance :-)!

TrentePieds

[sinna2too]

Your comments don't seem in context to the concepts of the A40. Have you followed or read about the A40 or just making a snap judgement?

John Harries's core principle is no innovation in the boat features/equipment. He is specifying the boat with proven features, equipment and design concepts to make a boat that is seaworthy and cost effective.

I really like the idea of his core principles for boat design. However, I've followed this project for over 5 years and don't want to wait 2 years or more for my boat delivery. They don't have a builder yet and it seems as though all of the builders are at capacity after the upswing in boating interest during Covid.

I understood that used boat prices have followed the high used car prices and the inventory of used boats is very low. At this point I'm looking for a boat that actually exists and hope to find a good boat for a decent price.

Your comment that you found a good boat for a good price gives me optimism.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by sinna2too

Your comments don't seem in context to the concepts of the A40. Have you followed or read about the A40 or just making a snap judgement?

I would posit that many, (if not most,) of the members on this forum probably have 20>50 years of experience with boats, with very few "snap judgements".
If that boat truly offered anything beyond what was already on the market it wouldn't have already gone over 5 years without interest from a builder.
It's just another AWB that wouldn't draw a second look in any anchorage.

[sinna2too]

Yes, likely most of us have 20-50 years of sailing experience. However, that doesn't excuse making ill-informed comments of a boat design based on quick look of a conceptual drawing. What's the old adage? When you assume, you make an ass out u and me.

Do any of the new boats currently offered for sale strike your fancy as a solid cruising boat? I like the Boreal and Hallberg-Rassy but don't want to spend ~$500,000.

John Harries has been working on his design criteria for a "Model-T" cruising boat over the last 10 years. It's only been over the last 2 years that he and Maxime have reached the point to look for a builder.

I found it a fascinating project to design a simple, solid cruising boat with a focus on seaworthiness and good performance.

I've learned a lot in the detailed discussions of the A40 from some very experienced people. The main reason I join forums like this is to learn and discuss all aspects of sailing.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by sinna2too

Yes, likely most of us have 20-50 years of sailing experience. However, that doesn't excuse making ill-informed comments of a boat design based on quick look of a conceptual drawing. What's the old adage? When you assume, you make an ass out u and me.

Do any of the new boats currently offered for sale strike your fancy as a solid cruising boat? I like the Boreal and Hallberg-Rassy but don't want to spend ~$500,000.

John Harries has been working on his design criteria for a "Model-T" cruising boat over the last 10 years. It's only been over the last 2 years that he and Maxime have reached the point to look for a builder.

I found it a fascinating project to design a simple, solid cruising boat with a focus on seaworthiness and good performance.

I've learned a lot in the detailed discussions of the A40 from some very experienced people. The main reason I join forums like this is to learn and discuss all aspects of sailing.

Perhaps you could list what you consider as "ill-informed" comments that I or others have made.
How big of a market is there for a "Model T" boat?
Virtually everything that goes into a boat costs pretty much the same no matter the make/model of boat, (assuming roughly equal sizes/weights).
So, where do you save the money?
Weight/labor costs money.
If the designers have already spent 10 years on this project perhaps they already "missed the boat", (what's been the cost increases over the last 10 years?)
You keep talking about "seaworthiness/performance".
What aspects of that design lead you to believe that it is any better in those areas than any one of a few score of other boats?

[TrentePieds]

Sinna:

I am sorry if you found my post a little dismissive. You said: "John Harries's core principle is no innovation in the boat features/equipment."

Where, then, is the justification for a new design at all?

You said: "He is specifying the boat with proven features, equipment and design concepts to make a boat that is seaworthy and cost effective."

Well, I should hope so :-)! Else he would be doing a serious disservice to the seafaring community! And is that not what every yacht designer has done in every boat he has designed? So again, where is the justification for a new design at all?

John Harris is clearly not the designer. So who IS the designer? I doubt that it is Pascal Binet and Maxime Gérardin, the latter of whom I am told by the all-knowing Ms. Google is a French fundraising entrepreneur. Or was that "specialist"?

I see a statement that as many as 350 people have expressed an interest in putting down a deposit. Oh dear, oh dear! Maybe we should insist on seeing their mettle :-)!

If that is how the prototype is going to be funded, then I fear it would fly in the face of all sound corporate financing. I should be glad to explain to you why that is, but the rules forbid us to discuss politics :-) What I will say, is that such means, rather than the time-honoured, established ones have a high probability of leading to the loss of the deposits even if no dishonesty is involved.

And what is your role in propagating this scheme? I will take it you are just a sailor who has looked at the pretty renderings and become enthused. That would be forgivable. If you happen to be a marketing professional, I will change my mind about that :-)

All the best to you :-)!

TrentePieds

[sinna2too]

Well, Don C L's comment seemed to be based on a quick look at a conceptual rendering and he didn't like the Ikea look of the interior. You said it wouldn't turn any heads in an anchorage.

Sure, there's several old boats out there including your 35 Ft. cutter, custom that I'm sure turn heads in any anchorage. There're several old boat designs that I would buy in a heartbeat if they were still being built today.

It's not very interesting for me to discuss this boat with you if you've already decided you don't like the boat. I haven't seen anything to indicate that you or Don C Lin know anything nor have read anything about the boat.

If someone isn't willing to spend 15 minutes reading and learning about boat, then how can we have an informed discussion?

Getting assigned a homework assignment by you doesn't appeal to me.

There're several articles on the internet. You may find the answers to your questions in the free content at
https://www.morganscloud.com/categor.../adventure-40/

Thank you for jumping on this Adventure 40 thread.

[japawil]

“If someone isn't willing to spend 15 minutes reading and learning about boat, then how can we have an informed discussion?



Getting assigned a homework assignment by you doesn't appeal to me.



There're several articles on the internet. You may find the answers to your questions in the free content at”


Wow, the irony is almost unbearable!

[TrentePieds]

You have it bassackwards :-)

YOU are the one that wants to propagate interest in the boat. Unless YOU give me some raw meat to chew, I'll find raw meat elsewhere. Basic "Marketing 101" :-)
You still haven't told us what your interest is in the enterprise. Are you an investor?
Have you laid down a deposit?

All the best :-)

TP

[sinna2too]

TrentePieds

Got to love the internet... If you think I'm propagating interest by joining this Adventure 40 thread and making a comment, then I guess I am guilty.

I've been interested in the boat for a long time and have been following the creation of the design specs by John Harries and detailed discussions by some very experienced sailors. They've hashed out everything from bow to stern, top of mast to the strength of the keel/hull attachment. Everything is focused on a strong, fast lean offshore capable boat which isn't too expensive.

There aren't a lot of new boats that i find reasonably priced and focused on offshore cruising. The inventory of used boats still seems really low.

They aren't at the point of taking deposits.

I was happy to see a few A40 threads on the CForum and was hoping for some discussion of the boat. So far it doesn't seem like the folks here like the boat.

[sinna2too]

Hey japawil,

Thanks for your insight. I'm just on this A40 thread for discussion of the A40. I'm not interested in typing out and hand feeding you content that's already available.

[Don C L]

No need to take it personally. I don’t think any new boat companionways are designed the way I might do it. And, yes I based my impression off the video; weren’t we supposed to? Isn’t it odd to have the tiller coming out of the table?
Just my opinion.

[sinna2too]

Don C L,

I think that video was an early one and susceptible to coming off badly or robotic. Maybe I'm just old, but I thought it looked king of hokey. I would rather see drawings or an artist's rendering.

John Harries also raised red flags on the companionway as initially designed by Vincent Lebailly and they've already made changes.

The appeal of the A40 to me has been that it was speced out by a long time cruiser who loves to delve into the technical details, not the marketing dept designing something for the boat show or charter industry.

For me following the A40 was an intellectual exercise in designing a good boat without a lot of frills. I've learned a lot on the A40 website by reading the discussion by marine engineers, John Harries and other people.

I've gotten to the point of thinking the production of this boat is always 2 years out... and I'm back focusing on used boats. I would consider the boat in a few years if&when it makes it into production.

Thanks for moderating the discussion.

[bcboomer]

The latest update shows the progress and design concept for the keel.
They have a ways to go, but I think that there is a market for a properly designed, reasonably priced cruising sailboat. Maybe even some people on this forum! If I were younger, I'd be all over it.

TrentePieds seems proud of his google skills but missed the fact that the designer is Vincent Lebailly. He is a well respected Naval Architect.
TP and DonCL have obviously made up their minds and are not interested in the project, except to pick it apart.

I hope the Fast Passage 39 that was referenced isn't the one that a young couple bought about that time, the interior was junk. They have to do it all over. The electrical and plumbing were junk too.

For those with an open mind, go read about it.