Advice for purchasing larger monohull

[Montanarchist]

I'm new to the forum but not sailing. I learned to sail at ten but have never sailed anything larger than 14'

I've spent the last twelve years building an off-grid homestead in SW Montana. I'm also building a tiny house on the ocean in unalaklete Alaska, but warmer climes are calling to me.

I'm completely debt free, and have no bills to speak of. I have a couple hundred K to play with, but no regular income, so I need to do this in a manner that doesn't bleed me dry.

I have, and can, write for money and someday soon I'll have little cabins rented on my homestead.

I want a vessel that is as close to self-sufficient as I can make it. With that in mind I'm thinking 50-60. I've seen several nice ones in that class from the 80's in my price range.

Are there any brands, models, from that era that I should avoid or seek.

For salt water, is wood, fiberglass, fiber reinforced plastic, ferro cement, or steel a better hull choice?

What about style and sails?

Any advice for someone just getting into cruising?

Thanks M

[s/v Moondancer]

We own a 55 ft boat with generator, water maker and other mod cons like radar, SSB, chart plotters. We are sailing her from New Zealand to Sitka over the next 4 months. She will then be for sale because my wife wants a smaller boat.

Sailing lessons come with the boat.

[s/v Moondancer]

While it might cure you of wanting to sail...You can sail from Hawaii to Sitka with us.

About 20 days at sea!

Boat is a fiberglass Tatyana 55 built in 1984.

[Suijin]

If money is an object I would caution you to buy as small a boat as you can manage. A 50'+ boat is generally a complex and expensive machine, both to operate and even more so to maintain. If you buy an '80's boat, and it has not been recently refit, there is an excellent chance that many of it's systems will need replacement, and the bigger the boat the more expensive that is going to be.

Unless it is set up extremely well for single-handing, anything larger than 40' can be a handful by yourself, particularly docking.

You can fit everything you need (in terms of alternate power generation, water making, etc.) comfortably on a 35-40' boat. And that size boat is plenty of space for one, or even two people.

Don't forget, boats depreciate. The smaller the boat, the lower the purchase cost, the less the subsequent depreciation, and the lower the operating and maintenance costs.

It's a very common mistake for people new to cruising to buy a bigger older boat, then get blown away by the cost of refitting and maintenance.

That said, of you're set on a ~50-60' 1980's boat, you couldn't do any better than a Tayana 55. What a boat.

[Montanarchist]

Moondancer, man, you tempt me, badly. Unfortunately, I'm tied up for the next month or so. I looked up the specs of your boat and it sounds like a great vessel. Why are you going to sell it?

Suijin, the reason for such a large boat is because it'll house a minimum of three adults possibly up to five and occasionally a couple of kids. I don't think a smaller craft would be comfy, at least from my experience of living in a 26' Airstream while building my house. Maybe I'm wrong?

This sucker caught my attention, but I've just started looking.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1978-spencer-53-pilothouse-ketch-102916512

How would it compare to the Tayana 55?

[s/v Moondancer]

We are selling because of our age...she is a great sea boat...

We leave Hawaii mid-June.

She had a complete refit in 1999, new engine and gen and constant top class maintence since then.

[HankOnthewater]

Tayana 55? A wonderful boat. Doubt if you can find one below $200k, often they are nearly double that, just checking now......
http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-fo...lNkBoCHurw_wcB
or here
tayana 55 Boats For Sale

Yes, big boats are more complicated as systems are larger, equipment is heavier, and with all that, costs more to maintain/repair. However the price is, that is with older boats, often NOT really in relation to size, but to its condition and age of equipment.

As to hull material, GRP is the most popular and available. Not much maintenance. Steel may be stronger, but ask a previous owner about its maintenance. There are many large home-built steel ones for sale (in Australia at least). Price of such boats is often low, but quality is not always a given.

As far as your ‘Spencer 53’ consideration…. Certainly looks a boat with lots of room. I have never seen such Spencer, but I doubt if it comes on top when compared with a Tayana 55.

And if that ($155k) is an indication of price range, size and hull material, you may find other boats too, maybe some at a higher price point: FD 12, Irwin 52, Hudson Force 50 (and boats of that ilk), Transpac 49, Durbeck 50, CT 54, Herreshoff 57 (hmmm, last two will be more expensive) and maybe even an older Amel. Sometimes you may even find a Tayana 55 or Taswelll 56 at really low prices (and of course buyer beware+++). All these boats are 30 to 40 years old. Buyer be aware.

You might be surprised that some newer 50+ ft yacht by Beneteau and the like, are priced quite low, sometimes not far from the ones listed above. And those newer boats have lots more interior room than the listed older ones (when comparing length).
Lastly the price is also determined by its geographical location.

And if you were looking in the sub 50 ft range: the choice gets much bigger, and again, interior size on the newer boats is so much larger. Still, some of the older sub 50 ft yachts may fit your purpose, ie Perry 47, Vagabond 47, Valiant 47, Kelly Peterson 46, CT 48, CT 47/49 and lots more, all in that price range.

[Cadence]

With that kind of usable cash forget the 50 or 60 I assume feet. If you used to off the grid type living you can go with less. With no substantial income kiss off that length of boat. JMHO

[a64pilot]

Three things determine the cost and value of an older boat
Condition, condition, and condition. It would behoove you if at all possible to buy a boat that is being actively cruised by people that are experienced.
All boats are advertised as ready to go, and if you are not real experienced how are you going to know? There is a sucker born every minute, try not to be that sucker.

Take Phil up on his offer, even if you do not buy the boat, I bet your knowledge will expand exponentially in that three weeks.
If you are like I was and am still to a great extent, I didn't even know enough to know what I wanted or needed

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Montanarchist

Suijin, the reason for such a large boat is because it'll house a minimum of three adults possibly up to five and occasionally a couple of kids.

...Catamaran.

OK three adults changes the equation. I thought you were going on this venture solo.

As a64 points out, condition is the primary concern for an 80's boat, of any size, and you can not count on a listing description, much less the pictures, as offering any accurate information. In addition, even the survey will only be of superficial value in vetting the boat.

Ideally, you want to buy a boat that has recently undergone a major refit, since the seller will not recoup the cost of that refit, not even close. Those boats come on the market quite frequently when sellers' plans (or financial situation) changes unexpectedly. A close second, or maybe not even second, is a boat that has been continuously upgraded and improved by a knowledgeable and committed owner.

In other words, it's almost more important who you're buying the boat from than the boat itself.

Consider a few financial facts of a 50-60' monohull.

Repowering cost? Somewhere around $30k. New standing rigging? $10k. New fridge? $4k. All new running rigging? Probably $2k. New windlass? $5k. It goes on and on. Most 50-60' boats from the 80's in the $150k range are going to likely need a lot of systems replacement in the near future unless you stumble onto an unusually great deal.

The Spencer may be priced where she is since she's custom. She might be difficult to sell. New countertops and upholstery, nice, but the mechanical, structural, and rigging systems are what you want to know about. I'm always a bit suspicious of boat listings that don't show any pictures of mechanicals. What aren't you showing us?

One thing that is f'ing brilliant on that boat is the instruments on the hinge in the companionway that swing so you can view them in the cockpit or inside the salon. What an ingenious idea.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

While it might cure you of wanting to sail...You can sail from Hawaii to Sitka with us.

About 20 days at sea!

Boat is a fiberglass Tatyana 55 built in 1984.

That is one hell of a magnanimous offer. Only cost him a flight and I would assume his share of food and maybe fuel. I might lie to you and say I was in the market for your yacht just for that offer.

[Montanarchist]

Moondancer, I can't possibly get free in June until the 27th. But yes, I'd love that, if you're running late. Could you PM me the details of your boat?

Thanks for all the great advice and patience.

Suijin, how long is too long after a refit?

Hankonrhewater, what is GRP and why do you think it's superior?

A64pilot, do you think active use or recent refit is more important?

Cadence, maybe they could use two hands.

What would be the best way store a craft of this size while I'm on my homestead in the summer?

Does anyone rent or do an airbnb when they're not using their yacht?

What's the opinion on classic 1920-1940 vessels?

This (I know I'd need a crew) little girl makes me feel funny.

1926 donne et tardivel goelette Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Why are there so many cheap yachts out of Turkey?

Thanks everyone,

[Scout 30]

You might want to consider a shorter newer catamaran. They sleep a lot of people comfortably. Although your budget will be tight it's probably doable. Just remember that you need to budget for refit/repairs & maintenance which will typically be more than you imagine.

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by Montanarchist

......

Hankonrhewater, what is GRP and why do you think it's superior?.......

Thanks everyone,

GRP is an acronym for 'glass reinforced plastic', or in other words 'fibre-glass'.
Superior? Depends what you want or value.
As a hull material, ferro is superior as far as price concerns, steel is superior for strength, wood is superior for the possibility of aesthetics, fibre-glass is superior for lack of maintenance, and aluminium might be superior in some other ways, ie strong, light, little or no maintenance if unpainted.

As has been said a few times in this thread: the condition of the boat determines the price more than anything else. The price/cost of a boat in poor condition may double or triple (or even more) after repair, upgrade and rectifying faults. And this is specially true for big cheap boats.

[Williamp]

Pains me to think this but look at mid / late 2000's beneteau etc. They will just about fit the budget, avoid teak and ex charter. At your price point a '80s yacht will bleed you dry in maintenance costs and will be very difficult to sell on. The choice is, fix stuff or buy a younger boat and go sailing (and then fix stuff, but less of it).