Advice on purchasing bluewater - see criterion

[Clemroc]

Hello forums,

A friend and I are looking to buy a (used) bluewater sailboat. We intend to sail it through the Caribbean, and then through the Pacific Ocean.

Here are some of our criterion:
- 2 cabins + salon (so we can each have our own bedding)
- 5ft (1.5m) draft to have nice anchoring close to islands
- preference for skeghung rudder
- preference for ketch-rig, but not a dealbreak
- preference for centre cockpit, but not a dealbreaker

Budget is $50,000 USD for purchase and any repairs/extras.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to your feedback!

Clemroc

[Jim Cate]

Clemroc, for the venues that you have mentioned, the shallow draft spec is, IMO, not at all needed. Except for the Bahamas and some parts of Florida, most of t he world is easily cruised with much deeper draft... I don't include the ICW as a cruising ground (!) but it too favours shallow draft.

Our two cruising boats have both had 2.2 m (7'2") draft and in the Pacific islands and points W this has not been a significant problem. Meanwhile, we've enjoyed the stability and good windward performance that deeper draft provides.

Jim

[LakeSuperior]

$50 K is a little light for a boat and maintenance that will be needed for a Caribbean and Pacific cruise IMHO. How much pain and deprivation can you handle?

What will you have set aside for actual living and fees along the way?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Clemroc

Hello forums,

A friend and I are looking to buy a (used) bluewater sailboat. We intend to sail it through the Caribbean, and then through the Pacific Ocean.

Here are some of our criterion:
- 2 cabins + salon (so we can each have our own bedding)
- 5ft (1.5m) draft to have nice anchoring close to islands
- preference for skeghung rudder
- preference for ketch-rig, but not a dealbreak
- preference for centre cockpit, but not a dealbreaker

Budget is $50,000 USD for purchase and any repairs/extras.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to your feedback!

Clemroc

You have essentially 3 requirements:
2 staterooms,
5' draft
$50k ready to go.

2 staterooms could be a cabin aft and the v-berth but the v-berth will not be usable for sleeping except in pretty calm conditions. So it sounds like you want 2 cabins aft. 2 aft cabins also mean a bigger boat, 40+ft. Please clarify.

$50k ready to go means $30k-35k purchase price.

These 2 requirements are going to seriously be in conflict.

Rather than 2 cabins go for 2 pilot berths. Both people get their own berth, though not quite as private. If somebody needs private time occasionally, the v-berth is still available, just not on passage.

Even looking for 2 pilot berths instead, the 5' limit is going to be hard to meet. Let's say you relax that to 6'

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/cal-39
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1971/cal-39-3554428/

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/pearson-10m
https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/197...n-10m-2923064/

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/pearson-40

The P-40 has a centerboard so it meets the draft limit while anchored but is going to sell for about $55k + outfitting.

[Clemroc]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

How much pain and deprivation can you handle?

What will you have set aside for actual living and fees along the way?

We are both fit young men, used to rough camping and such.
As an example, my friend paddled down the Danube river from France to Romania with a kayak and a tent. He later went on to live in the unexplored jungles of French Guyana.
Comfort isn't much of an issue, we can take on some pain and go for lowtech.

As for the monthly budget, we are expecting ~1500 USD monthly while cruising to cover for food/insurance/visas/internet/fuel/maintenance etc.

[Stewie12]

If you follow this forum you will see that some cruisers show their monthly budget to be about $4,000, so yours looks low to me.

[Clemroc]

Originally Posted by Stewie12

If you follow this forum you will see that some cruisers show their monthly budget to be about $4,000, so yours looks low to me.

Perhaps 1500 is low, but I highly doubt it will go above 2000$. We will not be staying in marinas, wont be using gas, and wont be going to the restaurant.
Were also both good fishermen, used to the Caribbean (lived there for ~10 years). Also, with french passports, we will not be needing visas for most of the Caribbean countries.

As such, I don't expect the monthly budget to be very high - unless we have a massive breakage somewhere.

[skipmac]

I will second the comment from Jim about draft. Except FL and the Bahamas draft will almost never be a concern. Most of my boats have been a bit over 5' and even FL and Bahamas it wasn't a significant problem.

Also the advise about sleeping in the forepeak. At anchor no problem but doesn't matter how fit one is, trying to sleep forward when beating to windward is not going to happen. I've had friends that were bounced off the ceiling in rough weather before moving aft.

[Peregrine1983]

Any boat you buy at that price point will probably need work to be safe and capable, but a Pearson 424 ketch is a good place to start IMHO.

[Don C L]

There was a Sparkman and Stephnens designed Chris Craft 35 that had been cruising and went up for sale here a couple years ago that would have probably ticked off most of your boxes. Pretty long keel though, not sure if you wanted a fin keel.It was a center cockpit. It looked like it was in good shape from the ad, I think they were asking $25k. I think you'll find what you seek in an older, well-built and well-maintained older boat. It may not be as roomy as a more modern hull, but there are some older boats out there that may pop up for sale in your budget. It's a buyers' market now so browse lots of ads and walk the docks. If you find something you like you can show us and many folks here can advise you on a particular design. And remember a boat of any age is like a living thing, it needs a steady flow of cash, energy, skills and time. It sounds like you have the energy to make a good go of it. Good luck!

[rondelais]

Given desired features and price, Pearson 424 is the best I know of. Ketch, many have been offshore, big enough for what you want, really solidly built.

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by Clemroc

Hello forums,

A friend and I are looking to buy a (used) bluewater sailboat. We intend to sail it through the Caribbean, and then through the Pacific Ocean.

Here are some of our criterion:
- 2 cabins + salon (so we can each have our own bedding)
- 5ft (1.5m) draft to have nice anchoring close to islands
- preference for skeghung rudder
- preference for ketch-rig, but not a dealbreak
- preference for centre cockpit, but not a dealbreaker

Budget is $50,000 USD for purchase and any repairs/extras.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to your feedback!

Clemroc

In your price range and desire for shoal draft, I would look for an aft cockpit design of between 36 and 40 feet, cutter, not a ketch,with a semi-long keel (some call this long keel with cutaway for-foot) with the skeg hung rudder and internal ballast. A cutter with dual furling gives you most of the advantages of a ketch rig in terms of easily adjustable sail area.

I would not go offshore in any boat that does not have encapsulated ballast. But that's just me. There are too many old boats with corroded keel bolts.

Don't buy any older boat with common steel tanks. These are found in some of the Asian produced boats.

Here's why I gave the boat length of 35 to 40 feet and aft cockpit:

If you go center cockpit, it's nice to have a single opening to the main cabin, with a passage, below, to aft cabin and an engine room you can get into. This usually requires a boat length of at least 42 feet. Smaller CC boats often have tiny aft cabins and aft head, and need to have the access thru another door in the aft of the cockpit, making them less seaworthy.

But you won't get less than about 6ft draft in a boat over about 40ft, unless it is a cat. There are shoal draft designs at 5.5ft in boats up to 46ft, but they don't sail to weather as well. They become tender on anything more upwind than a close reach, meaning you carry less sail area so you are slower.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by Clemroc

We are both fit young men, used to rough camping and such.
As an example, my friend paddled down the Danube river from France to Romania with a kayak and a tent. He later went on to live in the unexplored jungles of French Guyana.
Comfort isn't much of an issue, we can take on some pain and go for lowtech.

As for the monthly budget, we are expecting ~1500 USD monthly while cruising to cover for food/insurance/visas/internet/fuel/maintenance etc.

Don't forget the water maker if you're set on doing the Pacific - a boat in your size range won't have the tankage. And counting on catchment can be a fools errand. Once you reach the atoll nations, water is going to be hard to come by. I wouldn't get too hung up about the sleeping accommodations with two people as neither of you will be doing much of that - mostly cat naps in the salon. I have to agree with others here in that your budget is way low to buy and equip a blue water boat for this trip - hell, the Panama Canal will eat up two grand and the water maker another four. Plus. the good lord only knows how much refitting will be required on a cheap pocket cruiser - people have been known to drop your budget just getting a boat they already own properly refitted.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Clemroc

Hello forums,

A friend and I are looking to buy a (used) bluewater sailboat. We intend to sail it through the Caribbean, and then through the Pacific Ocean.

Here are some of our criterion:
- 2 cabins + salon (so we can each have our own bedding)
- 5ft (1.5m) draft to have nice anchoring close to islands
- preference for skeghung rudder
- preference for ketch-rig, but not a dealbreak
- preference for centre cockpit, but not a dealbreaker

Budget is $50,000 USD for purchase and any repairs/extras.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to your feedback!

Clemroc

I recommend you go for it but since you propose to buy a used boat you are dependent on what is for sale, so start there...there are no shortcuts. Forum members telling what to buy may very well not be available or at a price you can afford. Most sailboat manufacturing runs are very small compared to automobiles.

You two should start looking at all the boats you can actually visit that are available on the market. Don't buy without visiting the boat and seeing for yourself. Take photos, details, and noting the price look them up on sailboatdata.com noting specific ratios to compare boats against one another. When you get tired of looking, look some more...you can't see too many boats.

Your final selection will be based on the thoroughness of your search and honest comparison of their ratios. $50,000 doesn't buy a lot of bluewater boat these days so you two had better discuss what equipment you will need for your voyage and include that in your search criteria and budget. Going smaller will get you farther in finding the boat to fulfill you dreams. Placing more emphasis on actual sailing ability and operating condition rather than the esthetic appeal so important to most buyers will open up more boats and take you closer to locating your Bluewater boat.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[AlanT]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Also the advise about sleeping in the forepeak. At anchor no problem but doesn't matter how fit one is, trying to sleep forward when beating to windward is not going to happen. I've had friends that were bounced off the ceiling in rough weather before moving aft.

I have different advice here. We lived and sailed halfway around the world and back on a very comfortable 49' boat with a queen bed in the bows and another in the stern. HOWEVER on a passage I never slept in our master cabin (in the stern). I was far more comfortable sleeping in the salon in the center of the boat, minimizing motion and convenient to help on deck if and as needed. So I believe that on a much smaller boat, as you are considering, this would be even more true. If I were on your boat for a passage I would do my utmost best to secure the leeward salon settee for my sleeping between watches. 90% of the time however you will not be sailing and the differences between sleeping in the forepeak and aft are minor once you sort out a quiet anchor rode arrangement. Good luck. And of course you can live on your budget. I have met cruisers around the med that lived on far less. It's all a question of what you consider essential. Check out "Matt Rutherford" online. We met him in the Canaries in 2009 where he was living on almost nothing although he made a little money for food selling weed. At that point he had sailed across the atlantic (W - E) on a 27' hurricane salvage boat that he got for almost free; he sailed this boat down the coast of W Africa and up innumerable rivers and after leaving us he went on to cross the Atlantic again before his current adventures which are covered quite well in the media. As to boats I would recommend a Cal if you can find one.