Alberg 30 vs. Triton vs. Ocean Voyager 26vs???

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Then again the Tartan is a nearly 35' LOA boat with only 25' LWL (!!!!!!). 10' (25% of the boat) is "wasted".

There are boats which are below 32' LOA while they have over 28' LWL.

This will bear on the amt of internal volume (living space) as well as on speed and comfort in open waters.

I think when one goes for a small boat then looking for max LWL/LOA makes some sense.

What do you think?

b.

I think the space is still usable in some fashion and therefore not wasted.
I think that moderate overhangs indicate the boat will probably be a bit drier in a seaway since the overhangs provide a certain amount of reserve buoyancy.
I would admit that they generally cost you slightly in terms of all out speed because of the shortened waterline.

However I expect, without doing any research to backup this opinion, that for same or similar length boats age and general hull design is likely to have a much bigger impact on speed than waterline length.

Understand that for me, I don't feel there is that big a speed difference between cruising boats until the difference approaches 60sec per mile. For racing that would be huge, not for cruising.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by roverhi

The older boats have longer overhangs. My 35' pearson has a 25' waterline, for example. The additional space is not wasted, however. The lazarette is big enough for me to crawl into and take a nap and the forepeak is able to stow 130' of chain and 150' of line on one rode and 300' of line and short chain on another rode. The water line length is deceiving as far as calculated hull speed. Once you heel these boats, even a few degrees, the water line increases and maximum speed potential increases. I've had my boat clocking over 7 knots in flat water with ideal winds and averaged almost calculated hull speed all the way to Hawaii.

Just because the older boats have relatively short waterlines compared to overall length, doesn't mean they are slow or there is wasted space. They have another advantage, they are not butt ugly like the current crop of fat assed, plumb bowed, long waterline designs. It's not to say that you want to load all your heavy items in the ends, however. Weight in the ends does affect windward performance in a seaway. We try and load the ends with mostly lighter weight gear which their seems to be no shortage of.

If you are thinking of long ocean passages, a catalina may not be the best boat for the real world. Catalina makes a nice boat but the older Pearson/Bristol/Tartan/Alberg boats are probably way stronger, have an easier motion, a better interior for sea work, and way way way cheaper. I know BeneHunAlinas have gone all over the world but so have 8' rowboats. There are ocean passages and there are ocean passages.

As far as slow/fast, the PHRF ratings are based on inshore performance in mostly light air conditions on courses with heavy windward components. Otherwise, they put a premium on pointing ability and light winds that aren't the norm out in the real cruising world. We routinely embarassed supposedly faster, better sailing boats with our Wetsnail and averaged 118nm a day over more that 10,000 miles of almost exclusively engineless cruising. Have had similar good performance with my Pearson 35, 15.5 days SF to Hilo on an atypical light trade wind passage. PHRF ratings will give you an idea, though not iron clad, of relative speed in coastal cruising. It's virtually worthless in the offshore world, however. The typical cruising routes are reaches to runs and the winds tend to blow Force 3-5 with a high degree of reliability.

I agree...DVC

[KGarwick]

Super old thread, but it's the internet so who cares as long as the topic is still valid.

As mentioned, there were many very strong fiberglass boats built in this size as we switched from wooden to fiberglass hulls. At the time, builders simply mimicked hull dimensions and created some insanely strong hulls as a result. To be fair, nobody really understood the true strength and durability of fiberglass at the time. Since then, hulls have gotten thinner, cheaper, lighter, and uglier (in my opinion).

I just snagged a Voyager 26 MK2 and am refitting it. These boats are what we call "rare" since only about 30 or so were ever made. It draws under 4 feet and we dry sail it.

Alberg 30s are very common on the market, as are Pearson Tritons. You simply cannot go wrong with either of these boats, provided you take the time to fix any deck rot. You can actually dry sail either of these two, given a good truck/trailer and a deep ramp. These two boats are amazing ocean passage-makers, but you're gonna get wet ...

My personal suggestion to anyone considering plopping their duff into the cockpit of any of these miniature ocean-going armored personnel carriers is ask yourself, "Why are we here?". Is it speed? Wrong sport. I raced a trike named "Already There" many years ago in San Francisco and discovered that we floated all day long at the finish line, waiting for the rest of the PHRF fleet to arrive. We were there to enjoy being on the water. We always won the races, but absolutely nobody cared except for the trimaran's owner.

Pick a comfortable sailing boat (something in the 30 comfort factor rating with a capsize ratio under 2) that meets your needs for cost and size. Avoid any "blue water" boat with shrouds that mount to chain plates through the deck, they're gonna leak and rot. Walk away from spade rudders and fin keels unless you really know what the hell you are getting yourself into. Tiller steer, not wheel, you'll thank me later for this. High freeboard makes extra reserve boyancy and a much drier ride.

Overhang on the bow and stern are a throwback to those sneaky IOC racers - trying to gain a handicap advantage by playing games with the length of the waterline. Some folks like the look, but it generally results in a boat that hobby-horses in choppy water. Overhang, along with tumble home, are purely asthetic for the most part. Personally, I kinda like that look (even though my Voyager 26 has neither).

A inboard gasoline engine is a time bomb just waiting to explode. Pick a boat with a low hours diesel and rebuild as needed - these are super simple engines and anyone can learn their basics.

Most of all, take the time and effort to do the work yourself, with a book or YouTube as a guide. This will help you fix it later when it breaks, since you already know what to do.

No boat is perfect. Manage your expectations, look under the hatches for rot, avoid hurricane damaged boats, walk away from anything you can't honestly afford to fix.

Cheers!

[Don C L]

Well, yes an old thread... anyone interested in those three should give my Columbia 29 a look! (She's faster)

[KGarwick]

Solid choice. I used to have a Columbia 26 and sailed the snot out of it.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by KGarwick

Solid choice. I used to have a Columbia 26 and sailed the snot out of it.

Mark 1 or Mark 2? I always thought the Mark 1 was a great little pocket cruiser.

[KGarwick]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Mark 1 or Mark 2? I always thought the Mark 1 was a great little pocket cruiser.

Shoal draft, I believe those were all mk1 equivalents. Tough boat, but couldn't point worth a damn. Had no head, an outboard engine, and a very rough ride in chop.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by KGarwick

Shoal draft, I believe those were all mk1 equivalents. Tough boat, but couldn't point worth a damn. Had no head, an outboard engine, and a very rough ride in chop.

Well, I believe the 26 MK1 did come with the inboard option and it did have a head compartment. I had the 24 and it probably wouldn't do well at pointing compared to a more modern design, but I sure had a lot of fun in mine! I don't recall a very rough ride... certainly not as rough as my buddy's Catalina upwind.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/galler...ageuser=155384

[rsvmille]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

The Seawind II will seem huge as compared to most of these other boats, but you are unlikely to find one for under $10,000.

And there she goes...

I was going to mention another one I know that's been sitting for a decade and will sell for under 10k but literally checked my email right now and see this evening she has a new home.

Saw another one on the west coast of MX last spring that dropped to 7.5k before it was delisted.

If you can find the one next to Patrick AFB in FL, no one can seem to get ahold of the owner anymore. I hear it needs a lot of work (to be expected at the price) but it is floating. Price was dropped from 12.5k to any reasonable offer will be entertained last summer.

In all fairness, you are correct on both counts though. Very hard to find for under 20 -30k and a will be a ton of work at these prices. 20k range will be sailable but likely need a lot of work still. I prefer the full teardown myself to that. On the second count: The beam and length each a foot wider and 23% more displacement makes it much bigger when compared to the original Seawind which compared to the A30 is displacement 12k vs 9k.

[plebian99]

All your time, expense for a project? Just save your money and wait till you are in a position to get a decent 35ft boat that fits your budget. These days with Covid related inflation for materials and shortages everywhere you would be wise to consider putting any big projects on hold. I think you will be disappointed in the end when its far too late to figure out that you are going to get burnt with cost blowouts. Just to make the point I have been costing one of these for something to do.

https://www.classglobe580.com/

Just with materials and not even putting a value on by labor, its already well past the 50K range to do the job properly on a 19ft boat. Now considering what 50k can buy on the used market you can see the lunacy of such project unless have a deep desire and a dream that has to be played out. And considering that is just a few sheets of plywood and time, you can see how quickly a project is going to cost you big dollars.

Buy something ready to go.

[KGarwick]

Originally Posted by plebian99

All your time, expense for a project? Just save your money and wait till you are in a position to get a decent 35ft boat that fits your budget. These days with Covid related inflation for materials and shortages everywhere you would be wise to consider putting any big projects on hold. I think you will be disappointed in the end when its far too late to figure out that you are going to get burnt with cost blowouts. Just to make the point I have been costing one of these for something to do.

https://www.classglobe580.com/

Just with materials and not even putting a value on by labor, its already well past the 50K range to do the job properly on a 19ft boat. Now considering what 50k can buy on the used market you can see the lunacy of such project unless have a deep desire and a dream that has to be played out. And considering that is just a few sheets of plywood and time, you can see how quickly a project is going to cost you big dollars.

Buy something ready to go.

I respectfully disagree. There are many, many older boats with exceptional structure on the market at bargain prices. Even with a major refit, the price can still be very good.

The OP asked for thoughts about three specific older, long keel, ocean proven, fiberglass hull boats. I believe that the 580 in your post belongs in a completely different thread.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by KGarwick

I respectfully disagree. There are many, many older boats with exceptional structure on the market at bargain prices. Even with a major refit, the price can still be very good.

The OP asked for thoughts about three specific older, long keel, ocean proven, fiberglass hull boats. I believe that the 580 in your post belongs in a completely different thread.

True.

And many times it's not that expensive to bring back an old boat.

I have spent about $10,000 bring back my Bristol 27 over the last 10 years, but I've been sailing it the entire time.

Paid $2,000 for it.

It had been on the hard near here for 5 years when I found it in 2011 the PO having left it there in 2006 on his way back home to Massachusetts after a 2 years cruise to Florida and the Bahamas

[KGarwick]

Originally Posted by thomm225

True.

And many times it's not that expensive to bring back an old boat.

I have spent about $10,000 bring back my Bristol 27 over the last 10 years, but I've been sailing it the entire time.

Paid $2,000 for it.

It had been on the hard near here for 5 years when I found it in 2011 the PO having left it there in 2006 on his way back home to Massachusetts after a 2 years cruise to Florida and the Bahamas

Dude, awesome find! Beautiful boat, great job.

[OldManMirage]

I don't want to give Thomm the big head, and anyway he probably knows that I agree with him on this. There are plenty of "good 'ol boats" out there just waiting for someone to give 'em some love.

For those of us on the lower end of the income scale - or those who simply don't want to put more than 50K into a hole in the water - the '70's and '80's plastic classics are perfect.

You can pretty easily find a 27-35 foot boat between 5K and 15K, spend a reasonable amount of time and money and end up with a great boat that is equipped the way you want it.

So many examples of people who have done this and are out there cruising. Or just keeping it at home and enjoying it.

It's what I'm doing.

[KGarwick]

"Fighting Guppy"
My Voyager 26 MK2 rescued from an old mooring in Florida and now in my yard in Los Angeles. I'm doing the refit as my time and budget allow.

Keeping the colors, swapping out the cabin interior for a less polished, more rugged theme. If it doesn't serve a critical purpose, out it goes.