Alberg 37 1975 wet send and water in encapsulated keel

[Oldsailor27]

Need advise how to get rid of wet sand and fill the void in keel cavity between fiberglass and lead. Yesterday have drilled couple of holes. The laminate is about 7/8 in thick, then wet sand about 1/2 in and then lead.
Got some water coming from second hole with completely wet sand.
Drilled on more hole in the very bottom and the laminate there sits plaice on lead, just about 1/8 of hard wet sand.
There was a damage in the keel due to grounding which I fixed last fall and I believe water might filled the keel cavity through that hole.
Please advise best course of fixing it and what would be the best product to fill in the gap between lead and laminate in the inside.

[tkeithlu]

First, do you need to? If all there is in there is lead and fiberglass, saltwater and sand are not going to hurt anything. My keel is filled with water.

If you do want to remove it, drilling enough holes to let the sand out and flushing with water from a garden hose is likely to do it. You would want enough water and enough pressure to keep the sand tumbling in the water. Then blow in air to help it dry out.

[Don C L]

I wouldn't worry about it. As tkeithlu says, water and sand don't hurt anything. I am guessing the sand is in there on purpose to fill the gaps around the lead. If so, I didn't know they did that, but it makes sense.

[Ballsnall]

I think you are on the right track. Drill a series of holes and flush all the sand out. Some more holes in the bottom of the keel to drain all the water, then flush with alcohol or acetone and let it dry out.

You can then either fill the voids with closed cell foam or my preference would be to fill with epoxy resin, patch the holes, paint then enjoy.

[Fore and Aft]

Oldsailor27 polyester resin will work just as well to fill the void and is much cheaper. I have used a funnel taped to the keel to pour new resin in. I ended up with a funnel on both sides of the keel. Mainly because it seemed that there was voids being missed from just filling one side.
Cheers

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

First, do you need to? If all there is in there is lead and fiberglass, saltwater and sand are not going to hurt anything. My keel is filled with water...

Old Sailor is located in Toronto, Canada, where temperatures occasionally get below freezing, not an ideal situation for a wet (encapsulated) keel.
Many Northerners drill holes in their waterlogged rudders, annually, at every fall haulout, let them drain over winter, then plug the holes, every spring, prior to launch.
I don’t recall how common that practice is, with keels.

[Oldsailor27]

Thank you guys, looks like a hell of work. Water freezing may crack the keel.
I do not see any cracks so far after this winter though. The fiberglass around the keel is 7/8 in thick. Glassing all the holes with 1/12 taper, lifting the boat and all that. But the work needs to be done anyways.
Thank you very much for your ideas. I might go with poly resin to fill to save few bucks. Just a question,- for small holes say 3/16 is there a way to plug them or should I grind 1 to 12 taper and glass it.
Given the amount of hole a have to drill it looks like a lot.

[Ballsnall]

You should be fine filling the holes with thickened epoxy, add a bit of chopped strand on the larger holes. Once the holes are filled, grind out an area 3" diameter by 1/4" deep and layer it up. I think 12:1 full thickness layup on the keel drilled holes would be unnecessary.

[Oldsailor27]

Thank you Ballsnall, much appreciated

[Startracker]

I would be VERY cautious in washing the sand out with a hose, remember that that sand is there to space your ballast off the glass in a lot of cases, and removing it all by flushing may cause the ballast to shift if you are not lucky.
Water in encapsulated keels is no big deal for warm climate boats but anywhere it freezes it's a risk.
If I had to do this job, I would do it in sections:
1. Starting at the low end of the keel, drill holes say 2' from the end on either side and right at the end on the very bottom, up about an inch. big enough you can get some fingers in, then push a foam(sponge wrapped in plastic works well as long as it's not sealed so air can escape, buy individually packaged and poke the back side with a fork) block towards the far end of the keel to keep from washing it all out at once. Can build up a few with a pair of hemostats to move them around vertically.
2. Flush until water is gone using an air hose with a 4' bit of vinyl tubing stuck on the blow gun(you can push this down the hole). Don't bother with epoxy, it's a huge waste of $$ for this. This will help remove less sand and more water without much fuss.
3. Mix up polyester resin with chopped strand until you get the hair fully expanded. Drill mixer is a good idea. You want enough hair to add strength but still liquid, don't use the hair itself to thicken(expensive). Use the cheapest bulking agent you can find locally that isn't talc or other water absorbing type. bulk it up until it is stiff, think like whipping cream that's just had a quick mix(still runny won't hold shape but starting to thicken up).
Next add enough cabosil that it gets almost to the consistency of whipping cream when you're finished. The trick is to get it so it will very very slightly run downhill if left sitting, but not so thin it will run out on you.
Pack the holes with the mix, ideally until you see it coming out the holes at the end. Now pull the plastic wrapped sponge from the sand side and put one in each hole to dam up the slightly runny mix. Monitor your pot until you see it juuust starting to gel. Pull sponges.
Let cure overnight.
Repeat this process every 2-3 feet along the keel. This uses the sand to support as much as possible, while allowing you to build the resin mix to replace it in situ. If you flush it all at once it can do weird stuff like shifting or worse staying put and then dropping a small distance in a hurry.

If you want to do it faster and cheaper(I would) then just drill the holes low, use a shop vac to pull vacuum on it and get most of the water leaving as much sand as possible, backfill with the above mix but make it thicker so it will stay put. Backfill roughly flush, then come back and grind later, you don't need a 12:1 but you do want to bond to at least a few layers of original glass over the hole. I have seen enough boats that just filled then flexed and got the problem all over again to not like that.
Even a 3/16 hole I still want glass. But just run the drill in again to get fresh glass since it sat a while now, then fill with thickened resin no chopped strand. Let set, quick buzz with the grinder to get you enough space for a couple layers of mat, say about an inch across. Shouldn't take more than 2 min a hole.

[Oldsailor27]

Thank you Startracker for your sound well detailed advice. I will definitely take it to action. Much appreciated.

[pcmm]

As you're based in Toronto, I'm going to go against the advice of the other responses. Water now is water...In Jan its Ice and takes up more space. Water in your keel will cause ice damage over time. You want to get it drained out and dried out as best as you can, then seal everything up and look for where its getting in and seal that too.

[Oldsailor27]

Thank you pcmm, I have started drilling holes, hope to finish this project by the end of May. Thank you all for your sound advices. I really appreciate it

[Oldsailor27]

Just a question,
I have opened up a keel cavity in the inside and tremors some damp sand.
Can I fill thickened epoxy in the gap if it’s still a bit damp?
I have been running heat dryer for couple of days and it’s still not completely dry.

[Oldsailor27]

While waiting for section of open keel to dry have closed garboard plug, poured two gallons of water into the bilg and have noticed water started to seeping out of the hole under the fuel tank.
Removed the tank, cut out a subfloor (really dirty in oil), cleaned up the age old garbage and found out some fiberglass delaminating.
Trued to pour acetone through it and in fact it is the one source of watery coming to keel from the inside.
Ghere are some noticeable cracks on the bilge bottom. Does not look like water is going through them, but I want to fill them up anyways. Any thoughts as what to use to spread the layer of two on the bilge bottom to better seal it? What cleaner to use as it is very tight to get everywhere with sander or grinder