Alberg 37 or Ingrid 38 ?

[Tim_H]

The goal:

Sail from here (Seattle) down the coast and around the South Pacific, up the coast of Brazil, the Carribean, Eastern Seaboard, and to Europe, and the Med.

My prefered vessels:
Bluewater boats Ingrid 38 Ketch.
Alberg 37 Yawl.

Pros and cons:

Ingrid 38:
probably more seaworthy.
Ketch probably a better short handed cruising rig.
Tough as nails hull layup.


Since most were owner finished finding a good one may be tough.

Alberg 37:
Cheaper slip fees (no bowsprit)
Most seem to have the galley situated so it would be hard to cook in a seaway
Faster boat?

Any thoughts?
I think either one would be a great boat for the task and it will probably boil down to the individuals boats price and equipment.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Tim_H

The goal:

Sail from here (Seattle) down the coast and around the South Pacific, up the coast of Brazil, the Carribean, Eastern Seaboard, and to Europe, and the Med.

My prefered vessels:
Bluewater boats Ingrid 38 Ketch.
Alberg 37 Yawl.

Pros and cons:

Ingrid 38:
probably more seaworthy.
Ketch probably a better short handed cruising rig.
Tough as nails hull layup.


Since most were owner finished finding a good one may be tough.

Alberg 37:
Cheaper slip fees (no bowsprit)
Most seem to have the galley situated so it would be hard to cook in a seaway
Faster boat?

Any thoughts?
I think either one would be a great boat for the task and it will probably boil down to the individuals boats price and equipment.

I don't know either boat well enough to comment specifically, but I would think a ketch is a more versatile/sensible rig, overall.

[SkiprJohn]

I've sailed aboard the Ingrid ketch and they are solid and seaworthy but a bit slow in light air because of their weight. There is a cutter version for sale in Winchester, Oregon. The owner might respond here.
I've not sailed on the Alberg.
regards,

[Zednotzee]

I like the A37, but I may be slightly biased.

I've only owned the boat a short time, but I find the performance reasonable in light air. I was able to make 5 knots in what I logged as "less than 10 knots" of wind, with a 110% genoa & the main (the mizzen mast wasn't stepped last year).

I'm not certain what you mean about the galley. There are both Mark 1 & Mark 2 versions. Mark 1 ran from 1967 to about 1970 & had the galley laid out midships along the starboard side. The Mark 2's have a rather more sensible galley in the starboard aft corner of the cabin.

More info here:

Alberg 37 Owner's Association

[Curmudgeon]

Your itinerary suggests that you plan to do Cape Horn. If so, I'd be worried about heavy air, not light air.

[jrogers]

Hey Tim,
One of the biggest differences between them is displacement. At design displacement of 26k the Ingrid is 60% bigger than the Alberg. That's a lot of boat if you don't need it or want it. I know because we just did our first haulout/bottom job!
John

[Tim_H]

The Ingrid is probably a better Cape Horn boat.

So all the Mk2s have the better galley arrangement?

[cchesley]

They are both boats that can do the trip. But they are both very different boats! As jrogers suggests, the Ingrid is a much larger boat, regardless of the loa with sprit. In fact, that is nothing for this trip! (you won't really be spending much time in slips in all likelihood)

Basically, do you want to travel light? or carry months of stores and spares? The Ingrid will have the volume and ability to carry the load. The Alberg, while heavy by today's standards, is a relative lightweight. How many crew do you expect to have aboard? One or two, maybe the Alberg. More? Maybe the Ingrid. The Alberg has a pretty short lwl as well which probably will tell you more. I'd expect less real room than a modern Catalina 30.

Overall, given the choice between just these two AND the projected trip, I suspect I'd favor the Ingrid. Maybe not quite as much sailing fun in light to moderate winds but you aren't talking a week's vacation cruise here.

[roverhi]

You are talking two entirely different boats. The Alberg is short waterline, long overhang, moderate displacement CCA racing design. These designs were usually a bit under canvased so not great light air boats with their fairly large wetted surface. The interiors are very tiny by todays standards. They did have sweet lines without any bumps or fat asses so their motion is pleasant when things get interesting. They are not your modern day racing boat that pound and bounce around like a ping pong ball and don't have the structural strength to stand up to the daily wear and tear of cruising. Assume the Alberg will have a similar motion to my Pearson 35 which is pleasant as it can be, no matter what the conditions.

The Ingrid is a very heavy displacment boat based on the North Sea rescue boats. They were designed to stand up to anything the ocean could throw at them and laugh doing it. I've put more than 10,000 miles on the ingrids little sister, the Westsail 32. The 32 is not a slow boat in cruising conditions and the Ingrid didn't have the problems of cramming 20,000 pounds into such a short boat. The relatively long water line and finer ends of the Ingrid should make 200 mile days not uncommon and a daily average over 130 nautical miles really easy. Personally, I'd opt for a cutter rig over the ketch. The cutter will sail faster under a variety of conditions and only one mast to deal with. If you really want sailing performance and can afford the entry fee, the Alajuela 38 is an Ingrid optimized for sailing performance. They have all lead ballast and a tall stick to make up for the wetted surface penalty in light airs and optimum performance under moderate condtions. The factory finished boats are really nicely done, too. The Ingrid will also carry several tons of gear, supplies and toys and not feel it.

Both boats have fairly slack bilges so will be initially tender. Once they are healed beyond 10 degrees, they stiffen up charge on like a trooper.

[Tim_H]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Personally, I'd opt for a cutter rig over the ketch.

Even if you mightbe doing most of the sailing yourself?

[roverhi]

With the cutter rig, you will only need to make a few sail changes from ghosting to survival conditions. An overlapping Genoa will improve light air performance to weather and an asymetric spinnaker will handle the rest of the light air conditions and moderate air reaching. With a 100% roller furling jib on the headstay and a reefable staysail, you've covered all the sail combinations. Reefing the main is a piece of cake especially if you run lines back to the cockpit. With a ketch, you are still going to need an overlapping genoa and asymetrical spinnaker for light conditions. The main advantage of a ketch is you can drop the main, rather than reef it for a quick and dirty reduction in sail area.

[seafarer31569]

Having owned an Alberg in the past, my choice would be - the ingrid. The Alberg is a fine boat but the ingrid has several advantages for voyaging as stated by some of the folks in the previous posts. No need to repeat them again.

[Tim_H]

It seems like thru history the ketch has been the choice of long distance short/singlehanded cruisers.

As far as having the mast in the cockpit area like that, I am not sure if it will be an advantage to have more stuff to hang on to or is it just more stuff in the way?

[SkiprJohn]

For singlehanding I'd prefer the Cutter plus less rigging maintenance to worry about. While its nice to have the mizzen and a mizzen staysail unless you have some crew with you they may not get used that much.
regards,

[Curmudgeon]

You might want to read Moitessier's book about sailing from Morea to Cape Horn in his 39 ft steel ketch, and the weather he encountered in the Eastern Pacific below 40 degrees of south latitude.